New Avengers #34 Doctor Strange defeats Thor
Fantastic 4 #27 Thing knocks out Thor with a single punch . THE THING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD
In Avengers #123 and #114 Mantis knocked Thor out . MANTIS!
Incredible Hulk #300 Hulk beats Thor into a bloody pulp In Infinity Revalation Adam Warlock destroys the entire Avengers including Hulk and Thor The Mighty Thor #126 Hercules easily beats Thor Silver Surfer #4 Surfer defeats Thor (While I know Surfer was a bit enhanced by Loki and Thor was holding back I still consider it a win)
The Avengers #214 Ghost Rider defeats Thor
The Mighty Thor #385 - The Hulk Defeats Thor Hulk : Let the battle begin - He defeats Thor once again The Mighty Thor #338 - Beta Ray Bill defeats Thor even though they knocked each other out
Uncanny Avengers #4 - Red skull easily whammies Thor Hulk #4 - Red Hulk obliterates Thor The Avengers #9 - Wonder Man defeats Thor
Thor isn't undefeatable . Superman and Hulk can defeat him this is the proof . Hulk who is castly stronger than the Thing and Superman who is stronger than Hulk who beat Thor into a bloody pulp
@MOP, relax and wait, from what I hear he is on Discord arguing with some dude about Thor V.S. Sentry so he hasn't had time to look for stuff on here, he'll see it just give it a minute.
And most of those feats are outlier and one time feats anyway and high end feats for fodder tier characters. For example an AMPED Surfer defeating a Thor holding back, that's a one time thing and shouldn't be counted because Thor has defeated Surfer more than 50% of the time and during the Annihilation event Surfer got a huge power boost from Galactus himself and Thor casually took him out with no amps at all. Mantis, PIS for very obvious reasons, Thing knocking him out a very, very ,very high end feat for Thing because Thing has lost to a standard Hulk MANY times and Thor has beaten Hulk more than Hulk has beaten Thor so while they've traded wins, Thor comes out victorious most of the time. Beta Ray Bill makes sense because he is Thor's equal, Hercules defeated him in a wrestling match basically, if it was an actual fight and Thor was allowed his hammer it's a gg Red Skull clearly didn't do that with his own power alone because Red Skull get's slapped by Captain America every time and Captain America is street level so yeah that's a no contest, Adam Warlock has an infinity stone my guy, not fair for anybody. You only gave 15 instances of Thor losing and most of which I proved illogical to use just now and from what I can tell Thor has been around for 56 years and the fact you could only come up with a measly little 15, you realize you made Thor look even stronger right, I'm not even a Thor fan but come on @MOP using outlier easily debunkable feats to try and prove your point, really?
I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm trying to show you your mistakes so you can improve apon them, if an non Thor fan like myself can debunk them imagine a super fan like @Spidey.
True ...True If we can't use High outlier feats for characters like thing etc How come Goku , Thor , Hulk , Superman etc etc are allowed their outlier feats
Reason I could only come up with 15 is three reasons 1. I'm not a Thor fan so I don't read most of his comics 2. I got half of them on a website 3. I only searched for like a half hour
Well most good debaters don't use outlier feats at all, the feats commonly used for Thor, Goku, Super Man, etc. all those characters have show that level of power on a consistent bases. And none of Goku's feats are outlier feats (except stupid **** like getting hit by a bullet and it hurting him) because he is written by only ONE person which separates him from the others and he only has one continuity so all his feats can be used because all his feats are consistent. Superman has consistently shown being capable of defeating the other Justice League members regularly and has multiple consistant lifting feats and speed feats which is why the are NOT outlier feats. The very same can be said for Hulk, Thor and all those other folk.
Wait... So you're fattening us up just to eat us? LOL
But fr You are one of the coolest members on this site . I would possibly still be at the bottom of the food chain if it wasn't for you
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P.s how was your Halloween?
Doctor Strange is far more powerful. He's contended with Shuma-Gorath, Nightmare and Dormammu, all of whom are far stronger than Thor.
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Superman is slightly more powerful than Thor. He is also faster. He's also far more versatile.
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Hal Jordan is far stronger than Superman, and has contended with Parallax on several occasions.
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Swamp Thing could defeat Jim Corrigan. Thor is nothing.
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Martian Manhunter is stronger than Superman and Hal Jordan, and he's contended with Darkseid.
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Spawn is comparable to a being who shook half the infinite multiverse with a swing of her lance. He would rip Thor apart.
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All of these people would defeat Thor, and some would godstomp him.
Superman, Hal Jordan, Spawn, and Martian Manhunter CAN beat Thor but not the majority of the time.
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Superman beats Thor 3-4/10 times
Hal Jordan beats Thor 1-2/10 times
Spawn beats Thor 3-4/10 times
Martian Manhunter beats Thor 3-4/10 times
I'm pretty sure I've made it clear I use Classic Strange when I mention Strange. And I didn't say Superman would easily defeat Thor. Manhunter, as well as Swamp Thing, Hal Jordan and Spawn would.
How is Captain Atom only a 4-5 victory ratio?
How is Phantom Stranger 9/10, but his equal, The Spectre, is 10/10?
How is Swamp Thing 4-5/10, when his inferior, The Spectre, is 10/10?
How is Spawn, who is comparable to Spectre and Phantom Stranger, only 4/10?
How is Manhunter, who fought evenly with Darkseid, only 4/10?
How are Scarlet Witch, Zatanna and Franklin Richards above 0/10?
Captain Atom is under/comparable to SS who is under Thor.
Phantom Stranger doesn't have as good feats as Spectre. But fair enough. 10/10 times.
Give me BASE Swamp Thing feats to prove he's above Thor.
Give me BASE Spawn feats to prove he's above Thor.
Manhunter may have fought toe-to-toe with Darkseid but his abilities wouldn't work on Thor. For example his intangibility wouldn't work since Mjolnir stops that.
Franklin Richards obviously beats Thor.
Current Strange should get a few wins against Thor.
Captain Atom would rip the Surfer in half. Atom is universal+, Surfer is solar system level. Try again.
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Doesn't have as good of feats? How about stalemating Corrigan himself in a fight?
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Restoring the entirety of The Green across the infinite multiverse. The Green was able to survive the Crisis on Infinite Earths, by the way.
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Being the near-equal to Angela, who made half the infinite multiverse shudder with her strikes.
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Okay, and? Manhunter is leagues more powerful than Thor. He doesn't need to use telepathy or intangibility to defeat him.
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Franklin gets speedblitzed. Current Strange is solar system level, and multi-universal with the strongest buffs he's gotten. He loses. Badly.
How is Surfer sola system level? Lol. Does Judas have any other feats? Also I changed my mind. He wins 10/10 times.
Was it base Swamp Thing and has he constantly showed feats like this? Angela stomped Spawn in their first encounter and that Angela feat must be when she was amped.
Manhunter might be more powerful but he can't defeat Thor. Like base Firestorm is less powerful than Superman but he can defeat Superman easily.
Franklin has subconsciously protected himself from Celestials. After doing that he one punches Thor like he did to a celestial.
Does he have any feats above that? If he does, I haven't seen them.
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He restrained an enraged Swamp Thing, who's on his level. Corrigan and Eclipso together couldn't actually kill him. He tanked a blast from Eclipso. The magic of Fate, Spectre and Eclipso combined wouldn't kill him. He broke Spectre and Eclipso's combined spells. —————
It was Base Swamp Thing. And he has shown more feats on this level. He defeated a man stated by The Monitor to be in the general level of Trigon and Jim Corrigan.
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Yes, in their first fight, Angela beat the s**t out of Spawn. After Second Metamorphosis, Spawn was around her level. And Angela wasn't amped when she did that.
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And why can't he beat Thor, hm? For what reason would he be unable to win?
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Has Franklin consistently been able to do this?
I didn't see anything that would put Surfer above solar system level. The most impressive thing was destroying an avatar of Thanos. And other than the Celestials, Franklin has no subconscious durability feats.
Surfer's best feats:
Surfer defeated Cancerverse Thor and Iron Man. The Cancerverse characters were as powerful as their 616 counterparts. Cancerverse Thor was strong enough to break Quasar's constructs and harm him.
Surfer fought full powered amped Nova Prime.
Surfer defeated Beta Ray Bill.
Surfer defeated Skaar.
Surfer one-shot God Cable.
Surfer defeated Morg, Galactus' most powerful herald ever.
Weakened Surfer one-shot amped Wonder Man.
Surfer casually defeats Terrax.
Surfer defeated an Avatar of Lady Death.
Surfer defeated an enraged Hulk.
Surfer casually defeats Ronan.
Surfer defeats Champion.
Surfer's skin can block the might of the Infinity Gems(which has captured Galactus).
There are many other feats. Please read ALL of them. Even if Franklin does get hit by Thor, he will be unaffected since he has been seen to withstand Celestial attacks like they were nothing. Please read Franklin's feats more carefully.
How did Surfer beat Cancerverse Thor when 616 Thor has beaten the s**t out of Surfer every time they've fought. Morg is the most powerful herald? So did you forget that Tyrant existed?
An avatar of Lady Death is hella PIS. Lady Death's avatars are on the level of Eternity. Surfer definitely can't beat Eternity.
Phoenix, Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, Doctor Fate, Captain Atom and Martian Manhunter destroy Thor 10/10, individually.
Phantom Stranger, Spectre and White Phoenix roflstomps Thor 6363637273632/10.
"How are Franklin Richards, Zatanna and Scarlet Witch above 00/10?". Are you drunk? Each of them should be far higher, as they are more powerful than Thor. -
And don't bring up that "durability" stuff, because Zatanna has survived attacks from Wonder Woman, Scarlet Witch has survived attacks from Chaos. Thor's attacks would barely faze them.
When has Zatanna ever taken a hit from Wonder Woman? And Thor would beat Wonder Woman, so what even is your point there? And stop bringing up Chaos, you know what my response to that it.
https://m.imgur.com/i6CPjDL?r
Thor's striking capability is similar to Wonder Woman's.
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I don't care if you think it's PIS, it's still a consistent feat, and not PIS.
Yes, it is. Zatanna and Wonder Woman are both in their New 52 outfits. And it matters because the New 52 has so many differences to the Pre/Post-Crisis universe. For example, N52 Wonder Woman is planet level, instead of universal+ like in Pre-52.
You're the one who uses composite versions of everyone on this website, including Doctor Strange, Doctor Fate and few others. Why aren't you doing the same for Scarlet Witch? And, I'm ignoring the fact that current Wanda is the same as HOM Wanda, but whatever.
That isn't the same thing. HoM was a buffed version of Wanda. Pre and Post-Crisis Superman had no buffs, so they can be counted as composite. Classic and Current Strange had no buffs, so they can be counted. And HoM is not the same as base Wanda. The only reason you think they're the same is because of one statement.
That isn't weak. Oh yeah, @SirSpidey. Thor doesn't have Matter Manipulation and Force-Fields even though he's changed lead into gold, and he has powerful force-fields. Thor has also disrupted intangibility and has phased through objects himself.
I know it's not my right to judge since I'm only fairly new to this site, but why do you guys use Odin Force Thor? Was it you guys decision or was is the owner of the site decision I'm kinda confused. Because OFT is on a whole other level than normal Thor
I know it's not my right to judge since I'm only fairly new to this site, but why do you guys use Odin Force Thor? Was it you guys decision or was is the owner of the site decision I'm kinda confused. Because OFT is on a whole other level than normal Thor
Just made Thor with all of his powers and abilities and he came out to be Power Level 248. Lol, no wonder @Galactus doesn't put in all of Thor's powers and abilities
@SirSpidey Who is you favorite comic book with Thor. I'm really curious and i wanna know because you have really big knowhere about Thor 😁 (sry for bad English)
It's fine. Classic Thor. Always stick with the original adaptations of Thor because those comics are always the best. So my favorite comics of Thor, I would say all the Journey Into Mystery comics that Stan Lee wrote. Those are really fun to read and Thor has some pretty interesting abilities that you see him utilize in this comic series. Next would be, of course, the Thor comics. This is where you see most of Thor's amazing feats take place. Other than those two series, I would say read the Thor: God of Thunder series. It's a really cool story arc where Thor fights one of his most powerful foes, namely Gorr The God Butcher. So ya, those would probably be my favorite comic books with Thor in them
Oh, I almost forgot. The last five issues of Thor Volume 2 are amazing. This is where Thor turns into Rune King Thor and becomes the god of the gods of gods. A pretty sick story arc
And I knew Thursday is named after Thor. That's why it's my favorite day of the week. (As a matter of fact, I just realized I posted this comment on a Thursday!)
Fun Fact: Thor can enter this state called "Warrior's Madness". For those of you who don't know what it is, it pretty much increases his strength tenfold, but at the cost of his sanity.(He once almost killed Thanos while he was in it.)
@Galactus: Two versions of Thor that Id like to see are, Warriors Madness Thor and Unworthy Thor. That would be cool to see how they match up against other characters
Yes i think you are right Stormtroupe93 incredible Hulk should be in the low 20s he is insanely strong and durable. I think its bouth right and wrong, i have never seen the warrior God blasting Hulk with powerful Asgardian magical energy. Used the Antiforce, Thermal blast or God blast. Weather manipulation powers or maximum charged blows from Mjolnir. If using this it would mean having a will killing the opponent.
Yes, you are completely correct. Thor has admitted to always holding back on Earth because Earth is so weak. This is evident when Thor ACCIDENTALLY knocks out Namor
Cool, thanks for the info. I assumed it was because of his versatility but I think the difference is a little too drastic when the characters are so comparable in physical traits. I think hulk should be low 20's at least. I am a huge hulk fan though so you can take that with a grain of salt.
Mighty Thor is a God and far above the human species and would not use maximum power on a mortal opponent as Hulk who also is Banner at same time. Also they have a relationship why maximum power is not used. If Mighty Thor would blast Hulk with a maximum God blast he is probably dead and if not at least seriously wounded and unconsious. If the number were to be the real overall power level bouth should have higher number if comparing to other characters. Mighty Thor defeats the Silver Surfer with much higher number as well as the Phoenix force Jean Grey. I dont think you should take this number to seriously.
@God_of_Thunder it's actually been said by Odin and I believe Thor himself that he doesn't hold back against hulk because he sees him as an equal in terms of physical strength and durability.
There are some diffrent ways to explain this. The number is supposed to be the overall power level of the character and depending of what statistic is most valued the number become diffrent. You ask why Mighty Thor have a higher overall power number than incredible Hulk ? Well the incredible Hulk is a very limited character to strength and durability. The Thunder God is the superior in almost everything inclueding some very important statistics incueding Versatility. Yes this is something that have confused a lot of readers. Mighty Thor became very badly written for some years because other characters as Hulk become more popular with fans. Also there are some not very good explanations for the stalemates and loss.
@Stormtroupe well first of all, thor has a more variety of powers, whereas hulk only has his unlimited amount of strength, anger, durability, and regeneration. thor also is a god and i believe he has a power that less than 10 characters have. that really boosts thor's rating. strength wise they are also similar, but hulk can get stronger the angrier he gets, so basically he has unlimited strength, but that's about it for hulk that's why he's only rated a 16, but I also think that's too low for hulk as well. I think he should be like an 18 or a 19 and thor should be like 27 or 28.
Just curious, comparing the hulk and Thor, I see that Thor is rated as 30 while the hulk is at 16. Why is this? I'm not too familiar with Thor but I do know that the hulk in many scenarios has stalemated and even defeated Thor on some occasions. Why are they ranked so differently? Thanks
Mr Kirby and mr Lee of course knew what they were doing creating Mighty Thor. Its not an accident the choise for the most powerful superhero to be a God. I have a hard time belive someone say they are fools and wrong after all they created the Marvel universe ! Writers have not always treated the character in a good respectful way because of own preference and fans. Its important to understand that Power level of the character and preference is not the same. A lot of fans have mixed this up some more than others.
He does have the God Blast, which can kill immortals and is due to his hammer having part of his lifeforce, and he has actually survived things that would kill a normal human. By the way, SirSpidey is not a fanboy because he actually sites his evidence, unlike you! :-P
• Intelligence: 100 - He has been around for approximately four thousand years and has all that experience with Asgard/Earth technology and his time being with the Avengers has helped grasp more knowledge • Strength: 100 - He pushed all 10 worlds pretty easily which would weigh at least 104.5 octillion tons Speed: 100 - He can be anywhere in seconds • Durability: 100 - He has survived being crushed by a score of planets and has also resisted the weight equal to that of a neutron star • Power: 100 - His origin as a god already puts him at a great power level. He has second to none power output due to his godly energies flowing through him. He has a blast that can kill immortals! • Combat: 100 - He was raised to be the best of his people, a people who have alwayse been war driven. He is the greatest combatant of all Earth or Asgard
When I say older then time itself I meant before time was accounted for. And no alien has defeated him. Darkseid had follows in his quest yes but in the end he defeated the gods and stole there powers for additional for himself.
I actually agree with @remy94's comment since Darkseid is basically a god and a entity at the same time, and a being older then time itself who has defeated entire pantheons of gods with his incalculable powers.
Completely agree @SirSpidey. Thor has not even reached his full potential and when he Will he Will be more powerful than Odin and he can destroy multiple galaxies. He is a mix between arguably the most powerful skyfather and an elder god (gaea) who is more powerful than Odin so Thor is a BEAST!
People should understand that Greek, Roman and Norse gods aren't so powerful in comics as they should be IRL, 'cause when people believed in these gods they believed that no one could be more powerful than them, in comics there are a lot of beings more powerful than these gods.....so don't always find an excuse on Thor's weaknesses saying that he can't be beaten or is stronger than someone else just because he is a god....yes he obviously is but in the comics they're not so powerful as they are meant to be....if we're talking about GOD we know that TOAA IS THE REAL GOD....at least in Marvel Comics
please update him, he closed a million tons of earth over loki once, snapped sentrys neck, he killed glory (glory had the power 10,000 gods), Thor arm-wrestled Hercules, causing the area to collapse and shifting the planet out of orbit. he can resist the gravimetic pressure equal to the weight of a neutron star. he pushed nine planets once (the world engine). he carved out an uru hammer with his fingers, he snapped out of adamantium cables once, he has resisted the weight of 20 planets. knocked out the phoenix force, injured galactus really badly with his godblast which can destroy a solar system at maximum power. he is unaffected by the sun as he stood inside a sun when confronting atum. he Withstood an attack he created against Surtur that was 1000 times hotter than the sun. he can absorb 25% of all the energy in the universe in mjolnir and almost completely shattered a planet miles away with the shockwaves of his punches
MJOLNIR Continued Some of the Enchantments of Mjolnir is Worthiness, Flight, Teleport, Dimension travel, Time travel, Energy absorption/manipulation, Weather manipulation, Shields barriers, Magical energy charged blows, Enhanced God blast, Thermal blast, Antiforce blast, Resurection of dead, Power negation/ manipulation and life soul manipulation to mention some. Perhaps the most known of all weapons of myths ! Mjolnir may absorb 20 percent of all energy in the universe, blow up hole planets with a blast and deliver blows enhanced by magical energy shattering everything it hits. He may fly at light speed and teleport in an instent across the universe.
MJOLNIR Mjölner in Swedish is the mythological weapon used of the God of Thunder Thor or Tor in Swedish. The dwarf weapon smiths Eitre and Brokk forged the hammer in the core of a star. When doing so the star exploded and erased the dinosars in the proces. The hammer is made from Uru an indestructeble metal found on the plane eternal. Odin king and ruler of Asgard enchanted the weapon with powerful magic making it even more durable. He placed a lot of magical abilitys or spells on the hammer and it is considered a Omega weapon same as the Teserakt. With Mjolnir the possibilitys for its master is countless making it possible to bend space and time. To be worthy lifting and use the power of Mjolnir the individual have to be a character with some spec qualities. For real only a hand full have done it !
GODS and DEMONS continued Gaea also gave birth to Atum the God slayer who slayed the other Elder Gods exept for Chthon and Set that escaped. Atum is the half brother of Thor. All Elder Gods were degenerating into life praying Demons except for Gaea and had to be killed. Chthon being the brother of Gaea and uncle to Thor is the inventor of Chaotic magic and abominations as the undead walking on earth. Degenerated Elder Gods is the first type of Demons coming to existence.
GODS AND DEMONS continued The Elder Godes Gaea or Gaia, Jord often refered to as Mother Earth or the Great Mother is the spirit of life on earth. The alias Great Mother she have because she is the mother to gods from more then one pantheon. She gave birth to the sky god Ouranos in Greek myth and then with him gave birth to the Titans. The Titans Cronus and Rhea then gave birth to Zeus king of the olympians. With Odin she gave birth to the most known of her children Mighty Thor. This makes Thor half Asgardian and half Elder God making him even more powerful. The God of thunder and lightning but also of strength, a warrior god that slay giants and monsters.
Yes Thor is powerful but as I've stated in the past there are many Superheroes that where created to be even more powerful then gods. for example the Spectre.
dreamed up Thor years ago because I wanted to create the biggest, most powerful superhero of all and I figured who can be bigger than a god?” Lee says of his idea for his God of Thunder, which was first scripted by Stan’s younger brother, Larry Lieber. “I chose the Norse gods,” Lee adds, “because I felt people were less familiar with them than with the Greek and Roman gods.” Created 1962 or at least made his first apperance in august this year. The comics title is Journey into mystery number 83. The character have not always been handled in a very good way and gone a bit up and down in popularity. Ofcourse this have had an impact upon the characters power level and storys as well.
The most powerful superhero would not need to depend on a object for the soul majority of his or her power. there are many superheroes that are capable of the same feats as the Mighty Thor, and they do not need Mjolnir to do so.
Well there is a lot of characters on this site that have very wrong statistics. The scale is also wrongly used the most obvious is the statistic for Combat. There should be an objective scale with explenations that goes from perhaps 5 all the way up to 100 Example 5 A handicaped person 50 Elite trained Mercenary or Soldier 60 Extraordinary skilled fighter 75 Maximum human potential, Extencive training and expirience. 85 Maximum superhuman potential, trained and expirienced for hundred plus years 90 Beyond superhuman potential, demigods and gods with extencive training and expirience. 100 Warrior Gods with thousends of years of training and expirience ! Mighty Thor Intelligence 60 Strength 100 Speed 90 / 100 Durability 100 Power 100 Combat 100
The most powerfull superhero in comics according to most serious fans. The only true God of superheroes, the offspring of Odin ruler of Asgard and Gaea elder godes of earth.The warrior god of thunder and war, several thousend of years of age. Armed with the most powerfull weapon of myths Mjolnir !
There was a comic where Loki found a way to alter Thor's personality to that of his own, but that was short-lived, because Odin found out about it and found a way to reverse it. The comic is called Journey into Mystery #94 "Thor and Loki Attackthe Human Race!"
He knows combat, he has been in countless battles before he even decided to lace his boots up to join the avengers. He is like 4000 or 5000 years. His combat experience should be kinda high, intelligence, still think should be above average since he is a god and prince. And the number system? That makes no since at then. The higher the number should mean that your better or have a better chance at winning.
@Goldenguardianofgood You obviously overrated Thor, I've read his comics. Thor know nothing actually, he doesn't know stuff about our world nor he know much stuff about his own world. Bruce or Tony are smart for our world, Odin and Loky are smart for Thors world, so in the end he's average and not smart at all compared to any of them. "He is a warrior god, you don't get that title without learning combat." You've said it yourself, it's title, just a title. And his warrior madness is brainless fist/hamer swinging, it's no where near to what combat knowledge is. Just super fast and super strong brawler with good reflexes.
@goldenguardianofgood the class rating doesn't mean that a class 17 would beat a class 15. HOWEVER it is likely that a class 17 would say beat a class 6.ure class is higher if your intelligence and power. Then all the other stuff like speed durability and combat.For example captain america and wolverine are class 6 but scarecrow is a 7 even though cap and wolverine would easily beat him
Another marvel character underrated on this site, Everybody saying his intelligence and combat should be lower, obviously never read a Thor comic. He is a warrior god, you don't get that title with out learning combat. And he is a god, so he knows some stuff, nothing on the level of iron man but still pretty smart.
Thor is not that smart(he's not dumb but 75 is just too much), same goes for his combat skills he's like a superman, just a very fast brawler, so his combat is 85(101% sure).
Ill give it to ya that he's not exactly a "genius" and I think his intel should definitely be lower than a 75. A 50 maybe at best. His intel mostly consists of battle strategy and how to properly rule a kingdom. Not exactly a "genius" level intellect. But he can travel at the speed of light so his speed should've been maxed out a long time ago. Also he can "interdimensional space travel" soooo would that count as teleportation?
Even without the mjlnoir he a unstoppable juggernaut... Then he does have the rune magic and Odinforce..... No one can match his yrs of combat experience and he teleports and and has super speed...... Thor shouldn\'t be below superman at all even without his hammer he still trumps supes with his rune magic by long shot.
Thor is a valiant Elementalist who has fed of war for milleniums. His bar of experience especially in the art of war should be 2nd to like Ares. His level should atleast be at supermans, if not more.
