The Superhero Database Classification number, or SHDB Class, is a number that represents the overall 'power' of a character. All traits of a character are used for calculating the Classification.
What it DOESN'T mean
This doesn't mean that a higher class would always beat a lower class character. But the bigger the difference in Class is, the more obvious it is who'll win in a fight.
How is this calculated
( INT^1.3 + (STR*0.5 )^2 + (SPE*0.5)^2 + DUR^1.6 + (POW + (SPS*SPL))^2 + COM^1.8 ) ^ TIER
Super Power Score and Level
Every Super Power has a score (SPS) that is used to calculate the Class. Each Super Power also has 3 levels (SPL). The level is set when connecting that Super Power to a character. The level determines the final score, of the Super Power, being used in the calculation.
I think its pretty clear who wins
doesn't he ?
i thought normal darkseid has beaten him
Hell, even base Galactus is
Galactus = Universal
Anti-Moniter= Eats universes
Why are people picking Galactus?
I don't scale DC so I don't know where does the AM scale to, but scaling Galactus to planets and saying eating universes makes you above Galactus, is totally wrong.
Antimonitor died from a planet
Justice league 2018
Think about it from my point of view. Everyone whose's spoken about Spectre says he's in the top 3 except you. Given that you like to assume a lot, I'm going to believe everyone else. Now that makes sense.
Spectre lost THRICE to Parallax, not once. And yes, the Seven Soldiers example does work because it clearly shows Zatanna > Zor = Spectre. Your Batman example is not equivalent because Batman needed PREP TIME to defeat Superman. Base Batman cannot beat Superman. Meanwhile, Base Spectre was matched by Base Zor, who was weaker than SS Zatanna. SS Zatanna is superior to The Spectre. Give proof that none of my examples can defeat The Spectre, don't just say they can't without evidence. Also really, you think that Gabriel Hornblower and Mazikeen, both of whom are relative to MICHAEL DEMIURGOS AND LUCIFER MORNINGSTAR can't beat The Spectre? Even though Michael already beat Spectre's ass? And Death of the Endless is stronger than Michael? Also the only reason you've given to support that Spectre is superior to them is that he's God's Wrath, which is not a proper reason. Title doesn't mean anything, especially when there's characters such as Lucifer and Michael, who are God's SONS, there's Elaine who literally became God, etc.
Yeah, no. I know for a fact I am not the only person who knows that The Spectre is not the third strongest. And if you believe he's the third strongest, prove it. Give scans and feats that prove him being the third strongest is the case.
Shall I send you the links of the people who all disagree with you?
Black Lantern Spectre v. Parallax - Parallax casually bodied Spectre.
Spectre v. Parallax, immediately after the above fight - Parallax was causally overpowering Spectre and was about to kill him before the Lanterns had to help Spectre.
Batman example does not prove your point because you keep overlooking the fact that Batman had PREP TIME when he beat Superman. It was not base Batman, your point does not work. Comparing Zatanna to The Spectre does help because once again, Zor is comparable to The Spectre. Spectre did not body him, Zor is comparable. Zatanna clapped Zor. So once again, Zatanna > Zor = Spectre.
Yes, again. Mazikeen has Lucifer's Morningstar powers. Gabriel Hornblower is at least comparable to Mazikeen. That makes five people (Presence, Michael, Lucifer, Mazikeen and Gabriel) that are stronger than Spectre. Then there's Elaine, who took The Presence's place. That makes six. The Endless, all seven of them, are above creation. The Spectre serves within it. Oh yeah, and Death of the Endless exists beyond The Void, which Spectre's strongest amped form is only equal to. Destiny of the Endless' book holds all existence, and not even Michael Demiurgos can take it from him. So yes, Spectre gets bodied by every last one of those people.
You just helped my point. I'm surprised you didn't see it. There's usually more to the fight when a weaker opponent beats a stronger one like with Batman. So obviously it does work. Spectre beat Zor, Zor couldn't beat Spectre so what you said didn't make sense.
Stop overlooking the fact that Batman always needs PREPARATION. It is not ever BASE Batman beating Superman level beings, it is Batman, prepared with Superman level TECH AND GEAR that lets him do that. Your entire point is invalid because Batman cannot do anything on Superman's tier via his own raw power, he always needs PREP TIME. Zor did not need prep to contend with The Spectre (also Spectre literally didn't beat Zor, Zor literally said "Time has made me your superior," so...). Because you clearly don't understand that Batman with prep is different than Batman without, let me explain it to you. Superman is superior to Base Batman by a literal infinite degree. Batman with PREP TIME (Justice Buster suit, Kryptonite, etc, etc.) is what's able to contend with Superman. Meanwhile, Base Zor, with no prep time, is able to contend with The Spectre. See the difference? One cannot perform an action in their BASE FORM, the other can. So once again, your Batman example is not equivalent. And even if Zor had lost to Spectre (and he didn't), Zatanna still destroyed Zor, and would therefore at least be equal to Spectre. So again, Spectre is nowhere near as strong as you think he is.
Wow, you just completely ignored literally everything I said in my last paragraph. Do you have any actual rebuttal to Mazikeen, Gabriel Hornblower, Elaine Belloc and The Endless being stronger than The Spectre? Also, you already conceded Spectre isn't the third strongest. You acknowledged that both Lucifer and Michael are superior to Spectre. Presence > Lucifer >= Michael > Spectre. Spectre ain't in third place, even in your basic scale that ignores the multitude of characters that would body Spectre. And I know damn well you don't expect me to take a list seriously when it considers THE FLASH and SUPERMAN as the fifteenth and fourteenth strongest characters in the entirety of DC when there's a multitude of cosmic beings, abstracts and Gods that could annihilate infinite amounts of both of them. Hell, there's even other beings on the Justice League far stronger than them both like Hal Jordan. But yeah, sure, you should absolutely take this list that gives no scans or actual evidence to support its ranking as absolute fact. Because that's definitely not utter stupidity.
You still missed the point even though your helping prove my point. There's usually a reason why a weaker opponent beats a stronger opponent. In this case it's Batman's gear and prep time. Zor likes to troll Spectre so of course he's going to make claims like that. Abomination, Red Hulk and the Leader have all claimed to be superior to Hulk and Hulk's beaten them time and time again. Try and read carefully before replying, it might help. It doesn't look like you know Zor or Spectre from what it looks like though. For one thing Spectre has beaten Zor before and again Zatanna is nothing compared to God's wraith.
I did read your assumptions in the last paragraph and I gave the link which disproved everything you said. I never conceded Spectre wasn't the third strongest. I have more links if you want. They all put Spectre near the top. Hal Jordan is arguably my second favourite hero but even I know there are stronger members in the Justice League. A site like that isn't going to just lie like you have. They gave examples. Given that you haven't given any scans, I'm going to listen to those that actually know Spectre
You say Zatanna is nothing to Spectre, yet ignore the fact that Zor is comparable to Spectre and Zatanna destroyed Zor. Spectre being "God's Wrath" is a title, it doesn't mean anything. That's like saying because Thanos calls himself God, he's omnipotent now. Your "point" is irrelevant. Zor didn't beat Spectre via gear or prep. It was sheer power alone. And then SS Zatanna beat Zor, via sheer power alone. Even if Spectre has beaten Zor, that just shows they're comparable because both have defeated the other. The comics are saying SS Zatanna > Zor = Spectre.
Assumptions nothing, I gave actual feats and facts from the comics. The only person assuming things is you, because you have not once disproved the concrete fact that Mazikeen, Gabriel Hornblower, The Endless and Elaine Belloc are superior to The Spectre. Honestly, do you even know who these characters are? Because your only reasoning is just assuming Spectre is stronger, because he's "gOd's wRaTh." And if you do know these character, you should be perfectly capable of forming your own reasoning as to how The Spectre is superior to them, with feats and actual evidence. Because at this moment, you've done none of that. You absolutely did concede Spectre isn't the third strongest, you acknowledged that The Presence, Lucifer Morningstar and Michael Demiurgos are superior to The Spectre. That's three people superior to The Spectre, meaning that The Spectre can at most be fourth place. That site is very clearly incorrect for numerous reasons such as:
1. Superman and The Flash are on the list, but superior beings such as Hal Jordan, Captain Atom and Shazam are not. All three that I just listed have better feats than both Superman and Flash.
2. There's literally only three characters from Vertigo, which factually has the strongest characters in DC. I hope you actually know what Vertigo is.
3. The rankings within the list are incorrect, and there is absolutely no evidence given to support them. No feats, no comic issues, no nothing.
Also I don't know what nonsense you're on, I've given the whole ass comic issues, which is better than a scan. You know who hasn't given any evidence at all though? You. You haven't once given a scan, you haven't once given a comic issue, you've simply assumed Spectre is superior to people that he is very much inferior to, and your only "reasoning" is some of the most neanderthalic and inane logic possible. So I'm going to ask, do you have any scans, comic issues, or actual evidence to prove your claims?
When it comes to the beginning of the list I too disagree but when it comes to the very top of the list that's when it becomes more consistent. You never gave any examples of Hal Jordan, Captain Atom and Shazam being better than Superman and Flash. You don't have to now because I agree but just saying. There's plenty of feats in there. It mentioned who Anti-Monitor's killed and in which comic, it mentioned Eclipso's involvement in the Noah's Ark and with Spectre himself it says how he killed the Lords and Agents of Order and Chaos without much effort, and he also de-powered Mr. Mxyzptlk. There's no scan. Meanwhile I sent a link that destroyed everything you said. Try and be careful before embarrassing yourself with statements like "I don't know what nonsense you're on". The irony can backfire on you.
Example (apart from the ones I included) are when he depowered Eclipso, as Jim Corrigen (cool name) he would eventually dominate Zor (Zor only stood a chance at first because Jim was still getting used to his powers), freeing Hal from Parallax and beating Anti-Monitor. Apart from 3 people no one is superior to Spectre in DC.
First off, Mazikeen. She literally has Lucifer's power. Throughout the entirety of the 2016 Lucifer series, she has his power and is equal to him. Oh yeah, and even before getting Lucifer's powers, she was able to fight against a fully powered Michael Demiurgos alongside Gabriel Hornblower. Mazikeen = Lucifer > Spectre.
Next up, Gabriel Hornblower. Gabriel is comparable to both Lucifer and Michael. So that immediately puts him above The Spectre. Also for a time Gabriel wielded a weapon made by The Presence himself, and said weapon allowed him to damage The Presence.
Next, The Endless. Death of the Endless alone was stated in a guidebook to be more than a match for Lucifer in willpower.
Lucifer himself explicitly said she's inevitable.
And as Michael died, Death was able to claim him.
Ah, and she also claimed Destiny of the Endless.
Destiny's book can't be taken by Michael, btw, and all existence is in his book.
Destiny is also the source of The Basanos' power, and Mazikeen (who as said above equals Lucifer) considers them dangerous.
And last, but not least, Elaine Belloc. Elaine is God. Presence literally gave her his position as God.
Lucifer implied that Elaine could defeat the Dark Presence, who equals the original Presence.
And finally, she restored all of Lucifer's power. With ease.
So yeah. Mazikeen, Gabriel Hornblower, The Endless and Elaine Belloc are all vastly stronger than The Spectre.
Mazikeen was a mortal who was given those powers by Lucifer. If she sins, the Spectre will come for her. You called Gabriel comparable to Micheal and Lucifer but you've also said Zor and Zatanna are comparable with Spectre so I'll that point with a pinch of salt.
Death of the Endless is in a weird spot. She is inevitable but she doesn't go out and fight. Time will do that.
Elaine is someone who I suppose you could say is more powerful than Spectre. The only thing that makes me sceptical of her is that she struggles with her powers and she's died before.
Your point there is irrelevant, Mazikeen still holds all of Lucifer's power. If Spectre came for her, he'd get obliterated because as you admitted, Lucifer > Spectre. And Mazikeen equals Lucifer. Unless you think Spectre can affect Lucifer, he's not going to affect Mazikeen. And she was able to wound Lucifer. Something Spectre isn't capable of doing.
Actually, it was Mike Carey who said Gabriel is comparable to Lucifer and Michael. I assume you're aware that Mike Carey wrote the entirety of the Lucifer comic run.
Whether she goes out and fights is irrelevant, she still very clearly has superior power to The Spectre, because she has claim over beings leagues beyond Spectre in strength, such as Michael Demiurgos. Also you completely ignored Destiny of the Endless.
You suppose Elaine is stronger? She literally became God. She literally became the thing that gives The Spectre his power. And Elaine's death happened before she became God, so that's irrelevant to the version of Elaine that actually matters. Similarly, she only struggled with the Dunamis Demiurgos that Michael gave her, not with the position of God.
If Mazikeen sins the power of God would come after her. She's not more powerful than that.
Comparable doesn't mean stronger, especially when you say it.
By your (faulty) logic Death of the Endless is better than everyone except the Presence then.
Your lying or ignoring important evidence so that dismantles anything for Destiny of the Endless too.
When Elaine wasn't God she's weaker than Spectre. Is she still God?
Spectre is not the power of God, he's the Wrath of God. And you completely ignored that Mazikeen equals Lucifer and can damage Lucifer, who you admitted is superior to The Spectre.
I literally never said comparable means stronger. The entire point is that Gabriel is on par with Lucifer and Michael, which therefore makes him superior to The Spectre.
Ignoring how my logic (which is factual) wouldn't put her above Lucifer, Death being above everyone who isn't Lucifer and The Presence makes complete sense. Because she has claim over Michael.
Wow, you accuse me of lying or ignoring evidence yet give absolutely nothing to support that, and you give no evidence to support how the evidence I gave for Destiny is incorrect. The only person who's been ignoring evidence here is you, man, considering that you've consistently ignored the facts of how strong the likes of Mazikeen and Gabriel are.
Can you prove that Elaine prior to becoming God is inferior to The Spectre? Or are you just assuming that she is? And she definitely isn't inferior with the Dunamis Demiurgos, as she gained all of Michael's power. And yes, Elaine is still God, because the entire reason I brought her up is because she became God. That's the only version that really matters right now.
And where does Spectre get his power from? Mazikeen doesn't have that power now.
Spectre's also comparable to Micheal and Lucifer so that doesn't automatically make Gabriel better.
Death is outside all this. She doesn't fight.
I've called you out on your lies before (e.g. no evidence for Zor winning). Re-read the replies if it helps.
Spectre is definitely going to beat a girl before she had the powers of God. How is that a question. If she sins the Spectre will come for her.
Spectre stalemated Anti-Monitor. He did not beat him. And once again, Spectre had to be amped by all magicians in the multiverse. Base Spectre couldn't do it.
Getting power from God is not the same as being the power of God, like you said Spectre is. And the Mazikeen I was referring to is the one who has Lucifer's power, so whether she currently has it or not is irrelevant.
Spectre is not comparable to either of them, you'd have to prove that he is. The comics themselves say Spectre is absolutely nothing to Michael, even when he doesn't use his true power of the Dunamis Demiurgos.
Death not fighting is irrelevant, she still has superior power to The Spectre, which is the entire point.
I proved how the only one lying is you, and all I'm seeing is that you don't have any rebuttal whatsoever to Destiny of the Endless being superior to The Spectre.
Prove it. Prove Spectre beats Elaine with actual comic book evidence instead of your assumptions. And Dunamis Demiurgos Elaine, who equals Michael, would casually put Spectre down, considering that again, Michael without the Dunamis Demiurgos already defeated Spectre.
It is relevant whether she has the power now because you always use the current version.
Micheal and Lucifer are sons of God while Spectre (you guessed it) is God's wraith.
Death can claim Spectre if he dies but she isn't the cause. Spectre has nothing to fear from her. You keep calling important points irrelevant. No wonder your confused.
I haven't lied only you have (e.g. claiming Zor beat Spectre). Is Destiny of the Endless backed by the Presence? It looks like whenever your backed into a corner you tend to just turn it around on me and ask the same thing. Just because your losing credibility doesn't mean I have.
You do not always use the current version, I can give so many examples on this site of that not being the case.
1. Thor - The current 2019 depowered Thor is not the one used.
2. Hulk - The current Immortal Hulk has a separate profile to base Hulk.
3. Superman - Rebirth Superman is not used, exclusively Post-Crisis Superman is used.
And you do realize that I was the one who brought up Mazikeen, and I was the one who decided what version was being used for this discussion, right? Now, do you concede the fact that Mazikeen with Lucifer's power is superior to The Spectre?
You didn't prove Spectre is comparable to either Lucifer or Michael, try again. Being related to God doesn't mean they're comparable, that is extremely neanderthalic logic. That's like saying because Zatanna and Mister Mxyzptlk use magic, they're comparable. Show actual scans proving that Spectre is comparable to Michael and Lucifer.
Yes, she can claim Spectre, she has power over him. Prove Spectre has nothing to fear from her with actual scans.
Zor beat Spectre in More Fun #55. That is factual. And yes, you have lied, you claimed I never gave evidence for Zor winning, I did so. And yes, Destiny of the Endless is backed by The Presence. I doubt that you're aware, but The Endless are primal aspects that control every single aspect of The Presence's creation. And the members of the Endless rule over a concept given by The Presence. Then there's also the fact that The Endless exist above creation while Spectre is made to serve within creation, as Michael said.
Nice, you didn't even respond to anything related to Elaine, I suppose you don't have any evidence to prove your claim that Spectre is superior to her.
Now, because I clearly have to ask this, do you have any... actual scans? Or comic book issues? Because you haven't provided any of those. All you've done is claim things without any actual backing.
I never said Spectre tore Parallax from Hal by himself. Like I've said, it helps if you re-read the replies since you have bad memory. Sinestro literally says "come to me Parallax. Before the Spectre destroys you". It looks like you haven't read it. The comic disagrees with you. Spectre was able to prevent Am from doing what he wanted. That's a win. Not sure how you thought AM won. Strange.
Thor Odinson has his powers again and Bruce Banner is the Hulk again. Superman hasn't changed majorly to make noticeable differences in battle.
If Mazikeen has Lucifer's powers then that means Spectre can now beat Lucifer. He either beats Lucifer or Mazikeen.
Death never beats those who die, she just claims them.
You literally said earlier that Zor was comparable to Spectre then changed it to him beating Spectre afterwards when you started losing. It's just you who lies.
I already debunked what you said about Elaine. Re-read the replies.
You actually did. As quoted from you; "Spectre easily tore Parallax out of Hal Jordan before Krona claimed it." This has been proven false, and you clearly didn't acknowledge that Spectre needed help from Star Sapphire to separate Hal and Parallax. The comic disagrees with you, clearly you can't see how Parallax was utterly bodying Spectre until Sinestro came in and restrained Parallax. Oh, and Sinestro's statement doesn't mean jack, because HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT PARALLAX. Now, Hal Jordan, someone who actually knows both Parallax and The Spectre, said; "He was scared of Parallax." And then Parallax (who was casual and toying with The Spectre), in the process of overpowering The Spectre said; "Save me, Carol? No. No, I'm not the one who needs to be saved. The Spectre will be destroyed!" Then there's the fact that Spectre only landed one hit on a casual and toying Parallax the entire fight. The comic shows Parallax > Spectre. Anti-Monitor left Spectre catatonic and was perfectly fine afterwards. Once again, re-read issues 10 and 11. Anti-Monitor came out of his conflict with Spectre, who still had the power of all magicians in the multiverse amping him, and was perfectly fine. Meanwhile Spectre was left catatonic and unconscious for the rest of the entire event. Issue 12 literally says Spectre is comatose. That's a win, for ANTI-MONITOR.
Thor is still drastically weaker than he once was, yet his profile on the site uses Thor at his prime consistent levels in the 616 universe. Current Hulk is still Immortal Hulk, yet his profile is base Savage Hulk. Superman's power level drastically differs between eras, I don't know how you aren't aware of that fact.
Or, HE DOESN'T BEAT EITHER. You cannot say Spectre can beat Mazikeen, because have not proved Spectre can beat Mazikeen. Mazikeen is equal to Lucifer Morningstar, who is superior to The Spectre. That is factual, and you've given no comic book evidence that says otherwise.
You didn't respond to anything related to Gabriel Hornblower, or Destiny of the Endless for that matter.
And again, Death claims them, which means she has power over them. Your logic says that one would have to actually beat another person to be more powerful than them, which is incorrect.
Or, if you could think with actual logic and powerscaling, one can beat another character and still be comparable to them. You seem to think that winning a fight instantly makes the victor more powerful, however that is not even close to the case. I haven't lied once, meanwhile you have lied several times. Also I love how you think you're winning when you haven't given any legitimate evidence for your claims (you've given one scan this entire debate, and even then it wasn't a scan it was you searching on Google), you've straight-up just made things up, and you use the most basic and neanderthalic logic possible.
You did not, your last reply didn't even mention Elaine Belloc, you never gave any scans or comic evidence proving your claim that Spectre is superior to even Elaine as an Angel, and you never gave any scans or comic evidence proving your claim that Spectre is superior to Elaine with the Dunamis Demiurgos.
You also didn't answer my question on if you have any actual scans or comic book issues to prove your points. Not sure if you're aware, but here, people like giving scans and/or comic book issues to prove their claims.
Now Spectre is a being that is still inside the map, he can travel to higher realms, do insane feats, but he never ever was in the Void, outside of not only DC creation, but all creations. Never was inside darkness, never scaled Void, never beat Michael or tanked his Demiurgos blast while powerless, never was able to be stated when powerless, to erase Death and make her shut up which I got scans for. Tyrannus, seriously... What is Spectre gonna do? Lucifer has been stated to never lose, plus was shown above any being he encountered so far aka Endless, Angels, Michael, Spectre, Source, Gabriel which I ofc have all scans and proof for, if you could make a discord account it would be easier.
Elaine and Presence are a special case, they would be the only ones with actual proof above Lucifer. Michael is only a near contender, as shown. And he negged Spectre without Demiurgos power, which Lucifer tanked powerless. Nor did Michael really try, no scratches and then 2 hits and Spectre was down.
And Michael also weakened Spectre and put a limit on his power. Spectre also assumed the Source was only an aspect of Michael or any other Arch Angel.
There it shows Elaine sees dimensions and creation as nothing, plus that nobody but YahWeh could have pulled off the feat Lucifer did which is folding the Void with one hand.
Here it is stated by Morpheus that Lucifer is the 2nd strongest being after YahWeh.
Lucifer was shown to know of his death, and here warns her, as she agrees Lucifer is above her.
As you see creation was gonna end and Michael wanted to prevent that from all costs, and it would have not effected him, Elaine nor Lucifer because he was only worried about it when his creation got involved too. So Michael dared Destiny who scaled above the map, Michael told Destiny he can take the book any time, and also the Endless know Michael fucks them as does Lucifer as proven. Destiny said if the book gets away from his hands, then creation ends immediately, and that is what Michael is trying to prevent. While Spectre would die if creation ends, unlike these chads.
Still didn't say he tore parallax out himself. Try again. You've literally been disproved by your own scan when Sinestro admitted Spectre was going to kill Parallax. I don't really believe anything you say about Sinetro since you're known for lying especially since Sinestro is the founder of the Yellow lantern corps which uses fear. You didn't show Parallax "toying with The Spectre" you showed Spectre about to destroy Parallax. Parallax was at Spectre's mercy. If you read #10 and #11 you'd see Spectre stops AM even though AM was amped. AM wasn't allowed to complete his objective because of Spectre. Success.
Give Thor time he'll be back. Hulk and Superman aren't that noticeably different (e.g. Superman can still fly, use heat vision and all the other things that make him Superman and they're both still strong)
If Lucifer gave his powers away to Mazikeen he's now weaker than Spectre. Before he did so Mazikeen is weaker. Either way who've just proved yourself wrong.
Already answered Gabriel and Destiny of the Endless. Re-read replies.
Spectre has nothing to fear from Death. If he dies it wasn't because of her it would be becasue of something else. Your giving her too much credit.
You have lied (e.g. when you said Zor wins when you admitted earlier that he was just comparable). When you get caught out you try and turn it on me and fail. To be fair your scans are helping me just fine.
I didn't say read my last reply I said read my replies meaning I answered it earlier than that. Elaine as Elaine only is weaker then Spectre.
It's not "people here" it's just you because you can't accept when your wrong. Don't worry, your already helping me with the scans so it looks like your already seeing things my way.
Lol how many times to you say "once again" even after I've debunked what you said.
Zor did indeed beat Spectre in More Fun #55, and it was explicitly said he was more powerful than Spectre. I did not once say Zor never beat Spectre, stop lying.
You literally did. You said Spectre easily tore Hal from Parallax. Which is a lie because it wasn't easy, and Spectre needed help from Star Sapphire, a fact you overlooked. If you weren't saying Spectre did it alone, you would have acknowledged that Star Sapphire had to help him. You literally ignored the rest of the scan where Parallax was dominating The Spectre and was going to murder him before Sinestro restrained him. I've disproved you calling me a liar, Sinestro literally doesn't know **** about Parallax, he got his neck snapped in Zero Hour before Hal even became Parallax. Out of all the Lanterns there, only Hal has intimate knowledge of both Parallax and The Spectre. Parallax wasn't absolutely not at Spectre's mercy, there is literally nothing in the fight that even implies that. Anti-Monitor was perfectly fine in issue 11 and Spectre was comatose, that's not a win. And you keep overlooking that SPECTRE WAS AMPED.
Thor doesn't have his original power back yet, so again, his profile doesn't use the most current incarnation.
Hulk is drastically different, Immortal Hulk and Savage Hulk are two entirely different beasts.
Clearly you aren't aware of the massive power differences between Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis and New 52 Superman. Pre-Crisis Superman has consistently shown multiversal feats, such as his clash with Jaxon that reset all timelines, being stated to be capable of resetting the flow of time itself, countering the energy of an entire Green Lantern Corps that can match The Time Trapper, etc. Post-Crisis Superman has shown feats on a universal scale, namely shattering a space-time continuum in his fight with Golden Age Superman, fighting on par with Orion, who survived a weapon capable of annihilating a universe, fighting against Brainiac-13, who can ravage timelines, etc. New 52 Superman has shown large star level feats, such as statements from himself and Cyborg Superman that he could tank supernovas, fighting evenly with Orion, who destroyed half a star system. See the huge differences?
You did not. You claimed Spectre is comparable to Lucifer and Michael, I asked you to prove it, you said they're comparable because they all relate to God (which is not how it works), I explained how that logic doesn't work, and asked you to provide scans proving Spectre is on par with Lucifer and Michael, you said nothing.
With Destiny of the Endless, you asked if the Endless were backed by The Presence. I explained how they are. You didn't respond to that.
Prove. That. He. Has. Nothing. To. Fear. From. Her. Give. Scans. Proving. That. If he dies, she claims him, plain and simple.
Once again, you can beat someone in a fight and still be comparable to them. I know you don't understand this simple fact, but at least try to keep up. Once again, I haven't lied once, but you have done so, several times.
You never proved that. I asked you to prove that, and you never did. You've only said Spectre is superior to base and Dunamis Demiurgos Elaine, but you've never given any comic book evidence to prove that.
Okay, so according to you, I'm the only person on this site who gives scans and evidence to support their claims. Would you like me to give the multitudes of examples proving you wrong there? All my scans do is prove you keep misconstruing the comics or blatantly ignoring feats.
You've debunked literally nothing, you just dodge things that you have no response for.
I never said Spectre tore out Parallax alone. The scan started off with Spectre rejecting a Red Lantern ring so I'm not sure what your on about. Don't believe you at all with Sinestro given your history of lies. You keep overlooking that AM failed his objective and was also amped but there we go.
I said Thor, Superman and Hulk will return to normal soon. Be patient
Either Mazikeen has the power and Lucifer loses or Lucifer has the power and Mazikeen loses.
You didn't answer how she isn't the cause off death, she just claims them after they've died.
I've already agreed with Lucifer so the essay you sent was kind of redundant.
You never once acknowledged that Spectre needed help from Star Sapphire and only said Spectre tore Hal out of Parallax, you even said Spectre did it easily, which is not what happened. Again, your claims that I lie have been proven incorrect, and you also haven't proven that Sinestro would know anything about Parallax's strength, considering he never got to witness it in Zero Hour. Anti-Monitor had a brief inconvenience. He was immediately back at it again in issue 11 and Spectre was rendered comatose by the entire event. That's not a win for Spectre.
No, you said Thor will return to normal and only Thor. And that still doesn't change the fact that the current version is not always the one used. And you can't even say Superman will return to normal, New 52 Superman's large star level strength is normal for him. Yet it's not what's used for the main Superman profile.
You'd have to prove Spectre can beat base Mazikeen or base Lucifer before you can say Spectre wins. And you didn't answer the question, so I'll ask again. Do you concede that Mazikeen with the Morningstar power would beat Spectre?
You didn't reply to anything with Gabriel Hornblower, Destiny of the Endless or Elaine Belloc.
She claims them the moment they die (not after, btw), her not being the cause doesn't matter. If she can claim a being, she has power over them. You also didn't prove that Spectre has nothing to fear from Death.
Then you agree that Mazikeen with the Morningstar power beats Spectre as well, because she equals Lucifer with the Morningstar power.
I'm not sure what your so upset about this point. I never said Spectre was alone but your kicking up a fuss about something so small. Did AM achieve his goal then?
Now your just nitpicking about Thor and Superman. Did Mazikeen have the power of God's wraith? Try answering my questions before I answer yours.
Already answered those 3. Read the previous replies.
By that (faulty) logic Death has killed everyone who's ever died. Doomsday never killed Superman it was Death of the Endless then right? You've yet to prove she has power over Spectre.
I don't know what makes you think I'm upset, but aight. You never acknowledged that Spectre needed Star Sapphire's help to separate Hal and Parallax, you only said that it was Spectre who separated them. That very clearly makes it seem like you think that it was only Spectre who did it, which is not the case. Anti-Monitor wiped out all the universes but one and caused the Post-Crisis retcon, so he pretty much did succeed. Meanwhile Spectre's off somewhere comatose.
That's not a nitpick, it's facts that Thor is nowhere near as strong as he used to be and N52 Superman is not as strong as the Superman used on this site, Post-Crisis Superman. You're the one who said the current version is always used, and that has been proven incorrect.
For the last time, having the title of God's Wrath doesn't equal instant superiority like you think it does. No, BASE Mazikeen isn't God's Wrath, but considering that God's Wrath has been beaten and contended with by beings that have literally zero relation to God whatsoever, his title doesn't mean jack. And Mazikeen Morningstar is equal to Lucifer Morningstar, who you conceded is superior to The Spectre, so I assume you concede Mazikeen Morningstar is superior to The Spectre.
You did not answer them, I asked for you to give evidence that you never provided. And with Destiny, I answered your question and then you said nothing. So I'll ask you again: Can you prove The Spectre is comparable to Lucifer and Michael and can you prove that The Spectre is superior to base Elaine and Dunamis Demiurgos Elaine?
That's not even close to what I said, but that is technically the truth. I have proved she has power over The Spectre, as she claimed Michael Demiurgos, is superior to Destiny of the Endless, who I already proved is beyond The Spectre, and Death's own feats such as being above The Void (which Spectre's absolute maximum power is equal to) put her above The Spectre. Now, you prove that Spectre is superior to Death, because you haven't proven that he is.
Still no evidence that Zor was stronger so it's still wrong.
It's spelt "alright" not "aight". I never said Spectre alone removed Parallax. Check again. Spectre prevented AM's final goal so he failed like you are now.
Don't believe you with your history of lies.
Lol we both know you won't stop saying that for the last time. I kind of want you to say it again now. If Lucifer gave his powers away to Mazikeen the Lucifer loses. If Mazikeen hasn't got the power yet Mazikeen loses.
Uh, More Fun #55 literally says Zor is more powerful and Spectre himself says Zor was more powerful. Do you need to see the scan for that again?
You really can't be talking about misspellings, but if you want to be petty like that, okay. Also aight is a slang word, so you're incorrect about it being misspelled anyways. You literally said Spectre did it. You didn't once mention the fact that he had help. Logically, one would assume you think Spectre did it alone. Spectre didn't prevent Anti-Monitor's final goal, he was still at it in issues 11 and 12.
Something you haven't proven to exist, you're just dodging again. Honestly, all I'm seeing here is that you don't have any evidence to support any of your claims of Spectre being superior to Gabriel Hornblower, Death of the Endless, Destiny of the Endless or Elaine Belloc.
Prove it. You still haven't proved that to be the case. In fact, considering you just said you agree with Lucifer, you concede that base Lucifer sees Spectre as nothing, because he literally gave scans where Lucifer considered Spectre to be an annoying bugger. And once again I have to ask, do you concede that Mazikeen Morningstar is superior to The Spectre? That is the entire point I'm trying to get across here.
Zor never actually beat Spectre and that's what you said.
Given that your the most petty person here that's hilarious to hear. You still make assumptions. I never said Spectre did so alone did I? You assume I did, which was wrong. Given that you now know you're wrong that should be the end of the matter. Spectre was hosted at the time. His host is still vulnerable.
Already answered all 4 of them before. You're just repeating a failed question now. Lucifer called him an "annoying bugger" because he didn't stay with him. Relax. To answer that, no Mazikeen without Lucifer's power is not stronger. That's clearly not your only point you're trying to get across considering how long you're replies are.
More Fun #55. Zor beat Spectre and is stated more powerful than him.
Prove that I'm petty. And yes, it would be logical to assume you think Spectre did it alone because you never once mentioned the fact that he had help. Spectre was actually removed from his host, as explicitly shown in Issue 51, Parallax ripped away the Black Lantern Crispus Allen to free The Spectre.
You have not. You've refused to reply to them, or give evidence in relation to them is what you've done. But hey, you clearly think you have responded to them, so you should be perfectly capable of reiterating them, right? So, reiterate how Spectre is comparable to Lucifer and Michael with scans and comic book evidence. Reiterate how Spectre is superior to base Elaine and Dunamis Demiurgos Elaine with scans and comic book evidence. Reiterate how Spectre is superior to Death and Destiny of the Endless with scans and comic book evidence. My question was not Mazikeen without Lucifer's power. My question was Mazikeen WITH Lucifer's power, which is why I referred to her as "Mazikeen Morningstar." Do you concede that she is superior to The Spectre? And yes, my entire point in bringing up Mazikeen was specifically her with the Morningstar powers, I didn't say it was my only point across the entire comment.
Still no evidence of Zor winning so it's still wrong.
For one thing, you keep going on and one about Spectre not being alone when Parallax was removed even though I never said he was. Not sure what the big deal is.
If you're not reading properly that's you're problem not mine. I haven't edited or deleted my comments so they're still for you to read. Want more proof, here it is;
So you admit Mazikeen without Lucifer's power is weaker then Spectre?
I literally just gave the entire issue, that's called evidence. More Fun #55.
Okay, let's start over then, because we're getting nowhere. Do you agree that Parallax is consistently superior to hosted Spectre?
That just seems like you ducking. Again. You should be capable of reiterating your points, no? That fanmade list isn't proof, I don't know how you still think stuff like that actually qualifies as evidence. Hell, this list is almost as bad as the last one, it has Superman Prime One-Million on it, and Prime One-Million is completely featless on his own.
Never said that, and not the point. Stop dodging and answer the damn question. Do you agree Mazikeen Morningstar is superior to The Spectre, yes or no?
You gave the name of a comic where Zor doesn't win. He trolls Spectre at best. Simply claiming he wins doesn't mean he wins.
Parallax has been so far. So you agree Spectre unbounded beats Parallax?
It's not like I'm hiding my replies. Who else knows but the fans (and the writers of comics)? Are you not a fan? So many people believe that way except you. Having X amount of feats doesn't mean anything. Superman and Batman have more feats than anyone else in DC but that doesn't suddenly make them better then someone like Spectre.
You didn't answer my last question so I feel no need to answer yours
Trolling him would still imply Zor won. It means he's so powerful that he can just toy around with Spectre and not take the fight seriously.
Okay, and you should be capable of reiterating your points, right? The amount of feats matters when a character has literally zero or very little feats on their own, such as Superman Prime One-Million. The only reason it's possible to even determine what his attack potency, speed, durability and etc. would be is scaling him from the main continuity Superman.
You haven't ever given me any evidence to support Spectre being superior to base Mazikeen, who can fight against Angels and Demons (while Spectre is prevented by Michael from entering Heaven), so no, I didn't admit Mazikeen is inferior to Spectre, I never said anything like that. Now, answer the question. Do you concede Mazikeen Morningstar is superior to The Spectre?
He never beat Spectre though. Check again. All he does is annoy Jim Corrigan by kidnapping Clarice Winston.
You conveniently ignored my question which pretty much confirms from you that Aztar destroys Parallax. We got there in the end didn't we.
It doesn't matter in the case of Superman Prime One-Million. We all know he gets his powers from the sun and if he spent all that time in the sun we already know how OP he's going to be.
There's no shame in losing to Micheal who only major threat is Lucifer and the Presence himself. Is Mazikeen an aspect of God in the form of God wraith?
Huh, I could have sworn I answered that. Weird. Anyways, yes, unbound Spectre beats Parallax.
No, we don't. The boost Superman gets from being in the Sun is unquantifiable. We have no idea how much stronger he got, how much faster he got, etc, etc. Again, the only reason he would have any values for those statistics is by scaling him from the main continuity Superman. And based on that, Superman Prime One-Million is nowhere near the level he is placed on the list, hell, he wouldn't even be stronger than Darkseid's emanations.
Ugh... Stop. Dodging. My. Question. Answer it already. Do you concede Mazikeen Morningstar is superior to The Spectre?
That's exactly the point though, you don't know how powerful he if so you can't say for certain he shouldn't be placed on that level. Normal Superman's been able to compete with Darkseid so Superman Prime One-Million should definitely do damage
Sure. If she has the power Lucifer doesn't so Spectre can go after him.
You can't say for certain he should be placed on that level either. And no, a casual Darkseid has one-shot Pre-Crisis Superman (Superman's most powerful canon incarnation) in the past, and Pre-Crisis Superman is superior to the highest level Superman Prime One-Million can be scaled to without headcanon.
Can you prove that to be the case with scans and comic book evidence?
Superman's been shown to beat Darkseid around before like when he thought Supergirl died. I personally believe that was bad writing but that fact that he was shown to do that shows how strong he was. Pre-Crisis Superman is good but he's nothing to Superman Prime One-Million. He never spent as much time as SPOM did in the sun which only multiplied he's powers.
When he gives his powers away Mazikeen has it now not him so he's vulnerable to God's wraith.
Pre-Crisis Superman's feats blow everything about Superman Prime One-Million out of the water. Pre-Crisis Superman reset infinite timelines. Superman Prime One-Million hasn't done anything on that level, and there's nothing that even implies he can do something on that level.
That's not scans or comic book evidence.
You are joking. SPOM can control over life and death (e.g. bring Lois back from death and created an indestructible body for her) and able to give powers to other Supermen. Pre-Crisis Superman was just a strong Superman, nothing special. You need to look into SPOM.
It's also the truth.
SPOM didn't bring Lois back on his own. He needed the help of a fifth-dimensional imp named Lzyxm Ltpkz to do that.
Also where are you getting that indestructible body stuff from? Nothing in the scan says that. And even if SPOM had done it alone, that doesn't put him above Pre-Crisis Superman. Pre-Crisis Superman reset the infinite timelines in the multiverse, and Superman's energy was able to counter that of the Future Green Lantern Corps, who could match the Time Trapper, who can wipe out all time in the multiverse. Pre-Crisis Superman has consistently shown multiversal levels of power, SPOM has not, so there's nothing that puts SPOM above Pre-Crisis Superman.
You haven't proven that to be the case.
He no longer has the power to protect himself therefore the Spectre will could come after him.
Can you prove that with comic book evidence? And just because Spectre comes after someone, it doesn't mean he's superior to them (cough cough Michael without the Dunamis Demiurgos cough cough).
I can prove that. Spectre stopped AM didn't he?