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Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge

Created by Soulcollecter57, 4 y 1 mo 13 d ago.

I've been board recently so I decided to issue an open challenge to each and every member of the SHDb community. I will debate anyone about anything as long as it is related to comic books and things of that nature so, now I only have one question... Who's next?!

Comments

cw6334
cw6334 3 y 5 mo 13 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
52 months member
1.6K
I was just wondering, could I possibly get on the discord sometime?
wh
whitney1a 3 y 5 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
69 months member
760
Wiccan as Demiurge vs. Dr. Manhattan
show 6 replies
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 5 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
I'm not familiar with Wiccan's power, care to give a brief explanation, and how high you scale him?
wh
whitney1a 3 y 5 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
69 months member
760
He's basically got the same powers as Scarlet Witch, with reality warping and things of that nature, and a lot of electrokinesis as well. I'd rank his power level as... well, I'm new here so I don't really know the terms, but easily one of if not the most powerful humans in the Marvel Multiverse.
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 5 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
Hmm, Dr. Manhattan has a lot of those same abilities as well, but he is reasonable for recreating the New 52, which is a 52x universal feat at least, what is Wiccan's most impressive feat?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 5 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
47 months member
14.3K
Wiccan as demiurge?

Do Dr Manhattan vs White/Dark Phoenix instead
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 5 mo 13 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
This is isn't a graveyard suggestion, he asked a question on who I think wins
DarkProdigy
DarkProdigy 3 y 5 mo 13 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
62 months member
10K
Go on Discord ma man
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 2 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
I'm feeling hype, I'll slap anyone right now in any debate, who's next!?
show 2 replies
EmptyHand
EmptyHand 3 y 5 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
44 months member
18K
Should i use our meme?
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 5 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
They'll have to open it in a new tab, but yeah go for it
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 9 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
64 months member
34.5K
Vegeta (with the training of Goku) v. Goku (with the training of Vegeta)
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soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 8 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
Vegeta, that's the one thing that sets them apart, the only reason Goku will always have the edge over Vegeta, is he knew hpw to train properly, smarter, not harder.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 16 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
64 months member
34.5K
I've got two for you.
1. Goku with the Power Cosmic v. Vegeta with Mjølnir
2. SSBE Vegeta (ToP) v. SSGSS Goku (Broly)
show 11 replies
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 16 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
Goku with power cosmic, gives him more versatility than Mjolnir would.
SSBE Vegeta, he was comparable to SSGSS Goju with a kiao ken boost on that, I believe it was a x10, so without kiao ken, Vegeta wins, even with additional training which is subjective, so I don't count it in battles.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 16 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
64 months member
34.5K
I disagree on both.
1. The Power Cosmic is much more versatile, but would Goku be smart enough to use it properly? I feel as if Goku wouldn't be able to figure out how to use the Power Cosmic right while Vegeta would easily learn how to use Mjølnir.
2. SSB Goku was stated to be nearing the power of a GoD by the time of the Broly movie, so he would have to be comparable to SSBE Vegeta as he was also nearing the power of a God. I think it would be a stalemate.
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 16 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
Goku may not be the strongest, but he would adapt to the power cosmic rather quickly, as he can adapt to new things very fast and learns at an incredible rate, he learned Kame Hame Ha on the first try, mastered Kiao Ken in a day, evident when you defeated Nappa he could easily change in and out of it on a dime, he also did the same with Ssj, god, and blue, he learned how ti use it very fast and plus having the power cosmic gives you at least base knowledge on how to use it, I mean Norrin Rad had it down to a science immediately after obtaining it, plus it's a larger power increase, went from base human level to arguably galaxy+. And it wqs nearing the power of a g.o.d. Vegeta was matching and surpassed a g.o.d. thar being Toppo, so it's very vague on the scale of g.o.d. but one was on that level the other was close, it's because of that I say Vegeta wins that fight.
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 16 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
68 months member
352
Smartest* not strongest for the first line.
SirSpidey
SirSpidey 3 y 6 mo 16 d
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@soulcollector34: The Silver Surfer admitted that Mjolnir's magic is more powerful than his Power Cosmic in 'Silver Surfer Volume 1 #4, Page #36, Panel #7'.
soratoumiga
soratoumiga 3 y 6 mo 16 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
53 months member
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@SirSpidey: That doesn't matter, since it's not SILVER SURFER'S Power Cosmic, it's Power Cosmic in general.
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 16 d
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352
@SirSpidey, I never said Surfer's power was stronger than Thor's, I had said it has a wider array of abilities, and is a larger boost to power not necessarily more powerful, as Thor was an asgardian without it, and even the weakest asgardians are still city to multi-city level, and Thor is above all of them, so it's a possible country buster to universal level, and a base human, to multi-galaxy level. So while Thor is stronger than Surfer, the power cosmic enhances a person much more.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 16 d
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Okay, one more thing. Who do you think would be more worthy of Mjølnir, Goku or Vegeta? I think Vegeta.
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 15 d
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352
Goku is more worthy, he is completely pure of heart, all he cares about is fighting and protecting his planet, and his friends, but refuses to kill anyone unless he absolutely has to, while Vegeta is similar to that, he still has some moral ambiguity, and has no problem with killing, so it's because of that I say Goku is more worthy.
SirSpidey
SirSpidey 3 y 6 mo 15 d
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@soratoumiga: Well good thing Mjolnir has decimated the master of the Power Cosmic within one blast.
soratoumiga
soratoumiga 3 y 6 mo 15 d
Soulcollecter57's Open Challenge
53 months member
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The master of Power Cosmic is Galactus, who has decimated an amped version of Thor and Odin himself, who is consistently shown to be superior to Thor. Power Cosmic is leagues and tiers above Mjolnir or anything that it has accomplished.
ManofPower
ManofPower 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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52 months member
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Who is more powerful
Ultra Instinct Goku or Doctor Fate with Full Power (I+III)
show 6 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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47 months member
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Fate all the way
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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64 months member
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By full power, do you mean Nabu?
ManofPower
ManofPower 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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52 months member
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Yes
Fate with the Power of Nabu
AkhilPDX
AkhilPDX 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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68 months member
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Nabu!
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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That just seems like spite then. Obviously Goku can't beat a being on that level.
EmptyHand
EmptyHand 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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Fate
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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Yeah @soulcollector, and even @LordTracer, I think there is potential there for both of them, I hope we see more about the past and what they are able to do or have backstories that eventually come out. I would then enjoy it a little bit more.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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SSJ2 Kefla v. SSBE Vegeta, who's stronger and why?
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soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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SSJ2 Kefla is arguably stronger, what it really comes down to is do you think G.O.D. Toppo is stronger than 2nd trigger UI Omen? I personally believe that Toppo was below that Goku, which would make him below SSJ2 Kefla, and if it took Vegeta almost killing himself to put down Toppo, meaning that they are comparable in power, Vegeta would be below Kefla.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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Yeah I'd like to talk about how I think Kale and Caulifla were annoying and dumb writing by Akira Toriyama personally, I have no problem with them being girls or anything. I just have a problem with the fact that Gohan, a "saiyan protege" was supposed to be one day better than Goku as stated by Akira Toriyama. I'm glad that he made it a struggle for him to become a super saiyan and it took him almost a year to do so and a crazy act of anger to reach SSJ2, then he did the same thing Cabba, who took Vegeta THREATENING to DESTROY his home planet. Then all of a sudden Kale and Caulifla just know of this power and go BEYOND it??? Then give Goku trouble as a SSB to where they eventually fuse which I don't have a problem with but then makes him go Ultra Instinct. I get WHY they are powerful but I don't like the laziness of the writing by Akira Toriyama and I think they are kinda just cop out characters to have more super saiyans and to have more crazy blasts.
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cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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I get that Caulifla was supposed to be some badass who had beaten many people and Kale is basically supposed to be their "Gohan or Broly" basically but doesn't mean I still don't feel like it was a cop out to write these characters into the story.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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You know Kale wasn't Toriyama's decision, right? The writers at Toei suggested her due to Broly's popularity, and Toriyama was just like; "Yeah, sure." And threw her in there. Them being as strong as they are aren't really cop-outs, since there's sensible explanations for why they're that strong. Caulifla can adapt mid-fight like Broly and Kale (along with being the Legendary Super Saiyan) has an endless well of power to draw from.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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So a character is popular so they decided to throw another one in there? Is it not a cop out? It is. Still, I think "adaptive abilities" are a little bit of a cop out, I hate that Goku can do it too. There's a lot of characters that do and it annoys me, only one that doesn't upset me is Cell since his genetic makeup is of other fighters, because Caulifla sees Cabba go Super Saiyan, she can just all of a sudden do it? Get out of here man. Cause if that's the case she has more potential power then what Gohan had and I don't believe that at all.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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That's not what a cop-out is. A cop-out is a lazy excuse or taking the easy way out. Kale being put into the story doesn't qualify as either of those definitions. And adaptation isn't a cop-out either, that's just part of the Saiyan physiology. All of them can do that. And Caulifla doesn't go SSJ just by seeing Cabba do it. Cabba teaches her how to go SSJ, and she does it. And considering that the Universe 6 Saiyans are noted to be "evolved Saiyans," which is why they don't have tails, it would make perfect sense for Caulifla to have comparable potential to Gohan, who's just a half-breed.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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Oh, and if you have a problem with Caulifla and Kale, I suppose you must have problems with Goten and Trunks as well. After all, they became Super Saiyans at a much younger age than Caulifla and Kale.
soulcollecter34
soulcollecter34 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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@cw6334 I don't agree with adaptive abilities either but you have ti understand they exist as a plot device, it is a cop out, but almost every main hero character has them, like Superman and the sun, or Hulk with his anger, it's an easy way to explain stuff that people use to progress the story, it is a cop out, but that doesn't correlate to character quality, they are just semi-poorly written Mary Sues, that's why their characters are lacking. It was simply fan service, and because Super had a deadline they needed to meet, so there wasn't room for all them to have long character development stages and were rushed to meet a deadline, same reason Jiren is considered a bad character, they were rushed, and needed a quick easy way to explain stuff, and their characters were negatively affected because of it.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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Here's the thing about Goten and Trunks, I think they are useless characters who don't ever really add much to the story besides fusing in the Buu Saga and then become Super Saiyan 3 which I also thought was dumb. I don't care as much about Super Saiyans because I know who their bloodline are. I don't really know Kale or Caulifla's bloodline very well. Now I think you're also miscontruing how I am talking about Kale and Caulifla, I don't care that they are in there and i think some of the stuff they do is cool. I just have problems with the fact, that all of a sudden they have these powers.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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It's just as all of a sudden as Goten and Trunks going SSJ as like 8 year olds. They don't make much sense either. And I guess you could say there's no proper explanation for Caulifla's power, but you can't say that with Kale. She is the Legendary Super Saiyan, it makes perfect sense for her to be as strong as she is. Just look at Broly. He went from below base Vegeta level to tangling with SSGSS Gogeta. That's an even higher level of ascension compared to Kale going from Cell Junior level to SSGSS Goku level.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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Here's the thing about Broly though, I actually care about his character and i understand where his raw power comes from. Whenever you live in captivity and have to kill for your food and use your instinctive abilities, that is going to make you MUCH MUCH stronger, and prepare you for almost anything. I agree with you that Kale can be the legendary super saiyan and @soulcollector said it best I think, if they would've had more time, they could have explained more about Kale and Caulifla, then I could've seen more growth. I would love to actually one day. Like I said, here is the thing about Goten and Trunks. With their bloodlines being filled with super saiyans already. I can understand that maybe they were born with the ability to do it, that's all. Didn't say I liked it.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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That works with Caulifla though. Broly grew up on a savage world (and is the LSSJ), Caulifla most likely had to work her way up before becoming the leader of her gang, and it was noted the moment she was first mentioned that she had amazing potential. It's just like Gohan in Z, he was quickly noted to have amazing potential. I just think it doesn't make sense to call Caulifla and Kale's power "bad writing," or a "cop-out" when there are explanations to how and why they're so strong.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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See but just like you said with Vegito , there are too many assumptions to be made, that's what you're doing with Caulifla right now, that she had to work her way up to being the leader. I agree that maybe she had to, but if we can't assume that Vegito is at full power, then we can't do the same with assuming on how Caulifla got to her power. We actually saw Broly survive a harsh planet his whole life and he wasn't alive on a planet where he had anyone else, it was just him and his father, who isn't much of a father if you ask me.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 25 d
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No, Vegito and Caulifla are two entirely different situations. Broly Saga Vegito is 99% assumptions. All we really know is that he'd be stronger than Gogeta. That's it. By the way, it's not saying Vegito isn't at full power. His full power was in the Black Arc, when we last saw him. Broly Saga Vegito literally does not exist. It would be like if I assumed every time Kefla was in a battle was a hypothetical Planet Sadal Saga Kefla. You can't do that because it doesn't exist. Same with Vegito. Anyways, Caulifla is different. It would make the most logical sense to say she had to work her way up to the top, because otherwise we'd have to assume that she started the gang, which has even less evidence and logic behind it.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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How is Broly Sage Vegito 99% assumptions? We know how powerful Goku is, we know how powerful Vegeta is at max power at the moment, then only assuming we are making here is that Vegeta would want to do it. Then the only other assumption would be. Can he go Ultra Instinct or no? I personally say no, but that's one assumption. Not five to ten. It's not like we've never seen Vegito before and are saying what if hypothetically they did what the Kai's did and fused, no. We already know Vegito and what he is capable of. We now know what Goku and Vegeta are capable of and you can put that current knowledge into Vegito. Just like people did with SSJ4 Vegito. Other than Caulifla being pretty strong and adaptable, what is your evidence that she had to overtake it? I don't think it exists. You can't base it off something that doesn't exist right?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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We don't know what Vegito's multiplier is, so we'd have to guess that. We don't know how strong his forms would be, so we'd have to guess that. We don't know anything about him besides, he'd be stronger than Goku and Vegeta combined, and he'd be stronger than Gogeta. We cannot use that, because there are too many assumptions, and because IT DOESN'T EXIST. Broly Saga Vegito doesn't exist, he can't be used, it's Goku Black Saga Vegito. That's just how it works. And as I said, it makes much more sense to assume that Caulifla didn't start at the top because of simple logic.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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Cause THIS is the most fair fight we could create and debate about. Latest Goku and most powerful Goku to this day, same goes for Vegeta and they do the fusion dance. We do the same Goku and the same Vegeta which we know everything about. We are not assuming anything about their powers. They decide to use the potara earrings to find out what is the strongest fusion. That is the ultimate and most fair fight.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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I wanted you to say why it makes the most logical sense cause I am still missing something I guess, that can explain why she became so powerful, but you are still assuming that is what happened. It is a logical assumption, I'll give you that, but still an assumption. Cause for all we know, someone could've died and she could've been handed the spot at the top. I'm not saying that is what happened, but it at least makes sense. she could've already been strong and then they trusted her with it. So we can both make assumptions. It doesn't exist still though. Even if we really want it too.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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Fairness doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that there is no Broly Saga Vegito, it doesn't exist, it cannot be used, it has to be Black Saga Vegito. If Vegito reappears in the future, then it will be that Vegito. But until that happens, it's Black Saga Vegito.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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So you're just fine with putting Vegito at a disadvantage, even though he already is anyway?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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And Caulifla working her way to the top makes logical sense for several reasons. One, she's very clearly in her late teens, maybe early twenties. How is she going to start a gang at that age? Two, you don't just get handed the top spot in a gang, I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Three, even if you did assume Caulifla started the gang from nothing (which makes absolutely no sense), you can't assume nobody tried to challenge her, which could be another explanation for her being that strong. There's also the fact that it was implied she's fought Cabba in the past, and was somewhat relative to him, so she's already clearly on that level of power since Cabba was equal to U6 Saga Vegeta in their base forms.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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It's not putting Vegito at a disadvantage. It's using what actually exists and is confirmed. And no, Vegito is not already at a disadvantage. It has been stated so many times that Potara >>> Metamoran. Using Broly Saga Vegito just seems like a poor attempt to have Vegito still win against Gogeta even though in reality, he'd get obliterated.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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Here I'm about to do some match for ya, all from the Manga and Guides. Goku base power level at SSGSS form in Dragonball Super Broly if we are using the formula's given by Battle Power Guide. SSGSS Goku and Vegeta are both at the power level of 9,325,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Septilion. Broly is even higher in Full Powered Legendary Super Saiyan. Vados comments in Tournament of Power that the Potara Fusion is adding up the two subjects power levels and multiplying it by 100 or 50 at the barem minimum. Making the Equation ((A+B)*100 or at least 50) So lets figure out the math shall we? Seems pretty logical to me, adding together we get a power level of 18.650 Septillion, then you multiply it by 100. 1.865 Octillion is the final result. I may have slipped up in my math somewhere but it is the basic gist. So there is the multiplier for ya.
LordTracer
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Really? Power levels? Power levels have not existed (or been relevant) since the end of the Namek Saga, and there's absolutely no power levels for anything in Super, except for those few moments in the Broly movie where they were on Planet Vegeta. So no. The math is also wrong by assuming Goku and Vegeta are equal, which couldn't be further from the truth.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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Also nooo, you are discounting the fact that Vegito being way more powerful, the fusion would last for maybe 1-5 minutes if even. In other versions of the Fusion dance, it is stated that the dance lasts for 30 minutes and depending on how much KI is used changes the time. This clearly is not the case in the Broly Saga. It all seems fudged a bit, because being truthful, because we saw Gotenks last 15 minutes as a SSJ3, and Gogeta lasts 10 as a SSJ4 so SSGSS would have to last 5 minutes or so? Or is that overlooked in this movie?
cw6334
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I'm using the math given by Battle Power Guide. Which is used to scale levels, and how they compare to other characters. Power scaling essentially
cw6334
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You know we aren't even thinking about this in reality which would be, neither fusion lasts long enough to finish the fight. Or shouldn't anyway. According to other Canon.
LordTracer
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Since when was there a battle power guide for Super? Where do those numbers even come from? And I'm not discounting anything with Vegito. He wouldn't be in the fight long enough to defuse, because honestly, Gogeta would one-shot him. That fight would end instantly, because Black Arc Vegito is just so far below Gogeta.
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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Okay so I am gonna say this one last time, Caulifla's origins of how she got to where she is, is unknown. You are making logical assumptions, ones that I even agree with, but you are still making an assumption nonetheless Tracer, cause we don't know and that story doesn't exist. Even if the math is incorrect on Vegito, you can still make the logical assumption that the potara still have the same power/multiplier. Goku and Vegeta being the "power level" that they are. It IS a logical assumption, I get the point that you are making about it not existing, I get that, but Caulifla's story about her ascnesion isn't there and doesn't exist so therefore you are creating the story in your head with a logical explanation or assumption. So therefore, others are allowed to do the same with Vegito. It's like if I made the logical assumption that if Gohan would've kept training he would be much farther ahead of Cabba and Caulifla (Kale I'm on the fence because of her raw power) because of where he was as Mystic Gohan, that story doesn't exist but I am still creating the exact same kind of logical assumption you are.
cw6334
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I also won't discredit the fact that Vegito is below him either, he's below Kefla and would probably almost be one-shotted by Gogeta
cw6334
cw6334 3 y 6 mo 24 d
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I am sorry Tracer I got my numbers from Battle Power Guide on Fandom, which makes them not factual and are based on interviews and such, not factual. I apologize. But this is actually a quote from Vados in the manga, which is the equation I gave and that is lowballing the numbers. So we at least have a though of what we could do for the numbers. But, I apologize, I misread something on here, you'll have to forgive me, it's early here haha.
cw6334
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One last question then, I will give you the fight of Gogeta (Broly) vs Vegito (Trunks) cause it's not close, but can we at least do something that does exist then? Super Gogeta vs Super Vegito?
LordTracer
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Well, if it was Super Gogeta v. Super Vegito, then Vegito would obliterate. Vegito was universal, since he was able to overpower Buuhan's Vice Shout that would have destroyed the universe, while Gogeta was only low universal due to very scaling from Broly.
cw6334
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So you'd say in respective timelines, they would both win one fight or the other? SSGSS Gogeta one-shots, and the Super Vegito does the same?
LordTracer
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Yeah, Gogeta Blue v. Vegito Blue, Gogeta one-shots. Super Gogeta v. Super Vegito, Vegito one-shots.
cw6334
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Well we definitely agree on that then. I like debating about Dragonball with you @LordTracer, you know so much more than most of my actual friends hahahah
SirSpidey
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@Soulcollector57: Thor defeated a well fed Galactus in 'Thor Volume 1 #161, Page #19'; prove me wrong.
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soratoumiga
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LOL!
soulcollecter34
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With assistance from, Ego the Living planet, and the Recorder yes. With help he was able to defeat Galactus, can't disprove a fact, kind of impossible to do.
SirSpidey
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How did Ego assist Thor, other than catching him out of the sky? And how would it even be possible for the Recorder to assist Thor? All he did was record the event...
soulcollecter34
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Ego battled Galactus for a very long time, basically the first half of the comic, and that weakened Galactus, obviously. And all I said was they assisted I didn't say how, and the Recorder helped him get there and to leave, and helped him awaken the Wanderer's ship. So he helped in some form or another.
SirSpidey
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Umm, Ego did absolute s**t to Galactus. If he did, by all means, prove it. So the Recorder didn't assist Thor in any way that actually pertains to Thor defeating Galactus. Why did you even mention him in the first place?
soulcollecter34
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On page 5, the narrator states "But never before a goal such as this exist! Never before did two such multi-powered entities as the planet devouring Galactus, and Ego, the living bioverse, face each other in a desperate battle!" If the two were not close in power, than the battle wouldn't be "desperate", you are making it seem as though it was a complete stomp, it wasn't, Ego was even trash talking Galactus the whole time, and managed to temporarily restrain Galactus, which takes a lot of force to achieve. Not to mention Thor didn't burt Galactus on his own power alone, he used a machine to harness and enhance the power of his hammer, not to mention had Thor not landed on Ego he would have died he even admitted it himself on page 16, 3rd panel, "I am hurled to you living planet with a force that is meant to slay me!" In the very next panel he says "But another force doth strangely rise to meet me!" "The world below me hath moved to stay my fall!" Thor is not one to use hyperbole, Galactus would have one shotted him had Ego not stop his fall.
SirSpidey
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Okay? The battle being desperate has nothing to do with Ego doing absolute s**t to Galactus. Point me to where in the comic it says or displays Galactus being hurt by Ego. Oh no, not THIS argument again. The pedestal did NOTHING. All it did was prop Mjolnir up in the direction of Galactus. But that is a moot point anyways because Thor has been shown capable of performing this same attack without a pedestal ever since. Hmm, I guess you need to work on your comprehension skills. Thor did not admit he was going to die. Many beings have attacked Thor with a force that is meant to slay him. That doesn't mean that Thor automatically dies though. You have to factor in Thor's nigh-invulnerability as well. And almost all of those attacks meant to slay him have proven insufficient. I'm surprised that you would even claim that you are a better debater than me whenever you can't even comprehend what a single quote is saying. What do you mean Thor isn't one to use hyperbole? Is he special or something? Does he get a concession because he is the God of Thunder or something? Explain yourself. Oh, so at first you say Thor can beat Galactus with help, but now you say that Thor gets one shot? Come on now, @soulcollector34. Let's try to stay consistent.
soulcollecter34
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He did require help. If Ego had not caught him, which is an assist, or help, he would have died, and Thor's hammer would not have been able to do that without the pedestal. Thor's hammer did that, not Thor, and he has NEVER shown that power again, never on that scale, prove the pedestal did not help, prove it. And what does debate skill have to do with comprehension? Please for the love of God explain that correlation. People interpret things differently, has nothing to do with debate skill, you sound ignorant. If you factor in Thor's nigh-unlimited durability, then you have to factor in Galactus' nigh-unlimited power, which cancel each other out, meaning it would have killed Thor. You have not proven otherwise, Thor admitted it would have killed him, or at least mortally wounded him. And you like the think what Thor says is complete truth, as you use a lot of statements from him, so I'd assume if you believe everything he says, that you wouldn't consider him one to hyperbole, which normally he doesn't. The only time he ever says anything he truly believes that. So you haven't proven he would have survived that attack without assistance which nothing suggests he would have otherwise, you have yet to proven he doesn't need help to fend off Galactus, and you haven't proven that he has achieved that same power, on the same exact magnitude that his hammer achieved with help from the pedestal. If he didn't need the pedestal then why did he use it? And you think something completely subjective such as interpretation = debating skill.
LordTracer
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This isn't something I completely agree with yet, but I came up with it while watching Episode 100 of DBS yesterday and I want to see what you think. Base Kale =< Majin Vegeta. Kale was able to stagger Methiop, who was likely Fat Buu level like the other fodder in the ToP. Majin Vegeta was able to stagger Fat Buu, but not do any real damage to him. Just like Kale with Methiop.
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soulcollecter34
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I can agree with that, and I feel Majin Vegeta based on that is slightly superior to base Kale, simply because Vegeta blasted holes clear through Fat Buu and was arguably equal in strength with Buu's major advantage being his regeneration hacks, if it wasn't for that after his self destruct Vegeta completely obliterated Fat Buu. Vegeta battle Buu for a long time before hand as a near equal even toying with him towards the beginning, and Kale got for the most part bodied until Caulifla saved her from what looked like a potential rape in progress. But the thing is, it wasn't until Vegeta self destructed that he was equaling the power of the SSJ2 Teen Gohan vs Perfect Cell Kame-Hame-Ha clash, so about multi-solar system level if we assume Fat Buu was stronger than Majin Vegeta. And Methiop is weaker than Piccolo through basic scaling and logic, and Piccolo is comparable to the Trio De Dangers from scaling to Frost, and they were around Buu saga tier. With that being said, if the Trio De Dangers are comparable to Fat Buu, and Methiop is weaker than the Trio De Dangers, then by scaling Kale would be weaker than Majin Vegeta who is comparable to Trio De Dangers, and if Vegeta put up a better fight against a stronger opponent, then base Kale from the beginning of the TOP should be weaker than Majin Vegeta.
LordTracer
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Okay, so base Kale would be maybe large star level, at most solar system levelI have some questions though. How is Frost in the same tier as the Trio De Dangers? They're Buu Saga level, but Frost should be on that universal level, as he should be somewhat relative to Cabba, who was equal to base Vegeta.
soulcollecter34
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I meant that The Trio De Dangers are Buu Saga, and Methiop is weaker than The Trio De Dangers, so Kale should be weaker than Majin Vegeta because of that fact, everything else was additional scaling to put emphasis on the point I was making. So Kale < Majin Vegeta
LordTracer
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Oh, okay. So, who do you think is the strongest character from Z that base Kale could beat?
soulcollecter34
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Probably Cell Jr. Level, maybe Perfect Cell if you wanted to high ball
soulcollecter34
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I'm bored and everyone is talking about who is the best debater and all of that, so I'm reopening my open challenge, anyone is free to debate me on anything, and I mean anything, except politics, that's not allowed anymore. And anyone else can issue an open challenge in this forum to prove their worth. So without further ado, who's next!?