How strong is goku, really?

A Characters topic created by JJmeek18

I've watched Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, and Dragon Ball Super. But I'm confused on why people make him out to be so strong. Let's Talk. No cursing or insulting or you get reported.

Comments

EmptyHand
EmptyHand 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
He is, hmm idk
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Not you dark wing lord is whom I talking about
show 6 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
What do you mean?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
So, you plan on actually moving on, or do you plan on conceding again?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Are you talking to me or him?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Him, not you.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
I plan on leaving you in your happy magical fun land.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
You wouldn't have spoken to me or mentioned me then, if that's what you wish to do.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Goku is overrated. I've meat people who think he solos Marvel/DC, people who think he beats pre retcon beyonder, etc
show 20 replies
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
See I don't think he solos the whole universes that's a little ridiculous but a lot of DC and Marvel universes don't stand a chance but like Goku vs like Celestials or Literal Gods? No chance
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
I do agree he would be a threat but I don't think he would stand any chance against Franklin Richards, Odin, Jean Grey with any version of the Phoenix, living Tribunal, Beyonder, Dormammu, Molecule Man, White Lantern, Spectre, Trigon, Ares, Anti Monitor, and so much more.
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
I agree with most of those, I think Jean Grey could be an interesting one.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
With which version of the Phoenix?
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
But those are just a few characters you know, he can beat a TON of characters in each universe.
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
So to say he is overrated is kind of wrong
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
There are a ton of characters who could beat him, some even effortlessly.
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
You really only named a few though? And I guess Dark Phoenix because White Phoenix wouldn't even make it close
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
White Phoenix of the crown >>> any other Phoenix host

https://www.superherodb.com/battle/phoenix-vs-goku/40-5858/
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
But the fact that she can manipulate matter and such, Goku I guess really can't do anything so I don't know if he could do anything
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
You didn't have to tell me that White Phoenix is strongest I just said that to you
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Agreed
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
I thought you said that "white Phoenix wouldn't make it close" I guess I miss understood you
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
Yeah wouldn't make it close? Meaning that he doesn't stand a chance against it?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
And regular Phoenix won't likely be going all out due to the fact that Jean is afraid of losing control
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
See, I disagree. A few people saying some outlandish stuff doesn't mean the character is overrated in general. Also, as for that list you gave, obviously Goku can't beat most of those people, a majority of those fights are just plain spite, like really, you felt the need to bring up The Living Tribunal? And Molecule Man? And The Beyonder? However, two of the people on your list, Franklin Richards and Odin: Goku can beat them. If speed is unequalized, Franklin's getting blitzed. And with Odin, current Goku could put up a hard fight with Blue and Blue Kaioken, and Ultra Instinct would defeat Odin.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Yeah but would they beat the beyonder?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Guess what speed isn't equalized.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Says The Who believes in happy magic fun land
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
I literally said it was unnecessary to bring up The Beyonder because obviously, Goku can't beat him. And if you paid attention, you'd see that I explicitly said that speed was UNequalized.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
You go live in happy magical fun land I have to fight life
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
I also agree that he is Universal+ and it looks like in the manga right now he is even gonna way beyond transcend that because the villain now Moro is way beyond, currently in the Super Universe he would STOMP ANYONE, the newest chapter hasn't come out yet but my guess is that Majin Buu is gonna be one of the main catalyst of helping stop him but knowing Akira he will probably have Goku find some kind of new level with Ultra Instinct LOL
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
My opinion it's everyone's opinion to believe it what they want to believe in
show 10 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Except opinions are irrelevant when it comes to powerscaling.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Powers scaling is still an opinion cause your still wrong on numbers
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Power scaling is irrelevant due to opinions
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Powerscaling is factual, and therefore transcends opinions, which are not based in fact in any way. Opinions are always irrelevant, worthless and shouldn't be used in things like this.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
How is factual
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Even thought you don't like YouTube videos watch this one this guy proves my point https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z_QAk4zccnQ
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
Dudes got aboslutely no idea what he is talking about.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Prove your own point, don't duck behind a video. At least restate the point of the video in your own words, because I'm not watching a YouTube video as your "evidence."
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
It ain't worth your time anyway @Tracer
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Why I'm gonna talk to nemian anyway
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Death of the author = opinion
show 1 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Then it's your opinion, meaning it's irrelevant, because opinions have no place in versus debating or powerscaling.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Deaths of the author still stands
show 1 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
It doesn't. It's an excuse that doesn't even work, as it opens the door for people to come up with literally anything they want and ignore what the author, the person who CREATED THE MEDIA IN THE FIRST PLACE, wants. And what the author wants overrides fan theories or anything similar. Word of God > everything, unless there are things explicitly shown in the media that go against the Word of God.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Death of the author still stands books are turned movies ever heard of screen writer the write a script for movie game of thrones is Daenerys Targaryen 18 in the book no she's 14 the screen writer made her order for the adaptation so death of the author still stands
show 7 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Dude, that's an entirely different series that has nothing to do with the current discussion. Don't change the subject.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
It's an example
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
And it has nothing to with the fact that Goku is universal, it was said six different times in the anime and even said in the manga, which is separate from the anime.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Death of the author still stand so I've won goku not universal
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
You haven't won, death of the author doesn't change the seven different times Goku has been stated universal in two different forms of media, you're just trying to make things go the way you want them because of your own bias.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
I made not bias to dragon ball I'm bias to you death of the author still stands you basically said 3 minutes ago that Managa and anime are separate so death of the author still stands
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
And I also said Toriyama, the head writer of Dragon Ball, is responsible for both the anime and manga. So no, it doesn't.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
There, I even gave both the mobile and desktop versions of the link.
show 4 replies
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
I saw it that the anime interpretation not the manga like you say it is so death of the author is stands
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
The anime and manga are two entirely separate things. Both are equally canon. And Beerus and Goku were still stated to be going to destroy the universe in the manga as well.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
The anime is a adaptation of the Managua and made by a separate set of people who are interpreting what the author is saying so death of the author still stands
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
That was the case for Z. Not Super. The Super manga and Super anime were written alongside each other and do their own separate things. The Super anime actually finished before the manga, it's not an adaptation. And Toriyama has main input on both, so again, author intent.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Couldn't find it so your lying
show 7 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
https://m.imgur.com/a/5qT3A33

Try
again. Don't just click the link, copy and paste it in another tab. If that doesn't work, that's just your own ineptitude.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
I did copy and paste nothing shows up
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Oh for Primus' sake... I just did it and it worked fine.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
So your lying
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Boy, what?! I literally gave a link with the scans. But you know what, I'll post it in a completely isolated comment so there's no possible way it could get messed up. If it doesn't work at that point, it's YOUR fault.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
If goku is universal + as everyone says he is the why not fight in base form and body everyone in dragon ball
show 15 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Because there's other people that are universal. Duh.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
But still if he is universal + with his god form then he no longer need the sayian forms blue or ultra intect to help him out
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
What type of fallacious argument is that? You're implying universal is the absolute peak of power and nothing can be beyond it. He's universal in base form and uses his other forms to make him stronger because there's still people stronger than him. Him being universal doesn't mean he no longer needs SSJ1 - SSJ3, SSG, SSGSS or UI, those just make him even stronger.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Dave valor and allsunday debunked this in a video but your to stubborn to watch
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
YouTube videos aren't evidence. If you want to say Goku's not universal, (for one, you'd be going against author intent) you're gonna have to disprove it yourself.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Not evidence there more evidence on youtube there is anywhere scratche that YouTube is a good place for evidence there are other placers authors intent you following the logic of death of the author which is debuncked
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
YouTube ain't evidence, you're gonna have to do the work yourself if you want to debunk it. Also, death of the author is nothing more than a ****-poor excuse to take whatever you specifically want out of the story to fit your personal views. Aka, bias. The writer's intention means more than anything the reader comes up with, and considering that Dragon Ball has had one writer throughout the entirety of canon, his word means more than anything else. Especially in cases like this, Word of God > everything else.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Author intent doesn't exist Cultural Reader: Short summary: Death of the Author - Roland Barthes
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
"Author intent doesn't exist" Uh, yeah it does. The author always has some intention in mind when they're writing the story; that's just how the human brain works. And when Akira Toriyama was writing Battle of Gods and the Beerus Saga, it was reiterated SIX TIMES that Goku and Beerus would have annihilated the universe. That very clearly shows that his intention is for them to be universal. Again, death of the author is just a way for people to cherry pick what they want to be true and ignore things.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Just look this up this proves author intent means nothing "Authorial Intent And "The Death Of The Author" ... This is essentially the concept that regardless of what the author intends to say with a book, the true meaning of a book can only be determined by the reader. In other words, authorial intent means very little.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
In other words, you're just trying to ignore what the author clearly wanted so you can warp the story to say whatever you want. By that logic, I can say that Hal Jordan is stronger than all the Emotional Embodiments because he beat Krona and he only lost his fight with Parallax because he was holding back. That's what "death of the author" and ignoring author intent gets you.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
Exactly goku is not universal + because Akira toryama never says its the reader opinion on the writer is saying
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Except Toriyama did say it. Six times.
Cr
Crimsonassassin 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
We're exactly
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Six times in the episode, some of which came from the narrator. It's very clear Toriyama's intention was for them to be universal. https://m.imgur.com/a/5qT3A33
There's
also several other feats throughout the series that show Goku having universal power.
soratoumiga
soratoumiga 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
Universal+, at least, and he can solo base Avengers/JLA, but I know haters gonna hate.
show 6 replies
jongensoden
jongensoden 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
You're really retired if you think that Superman stomps him Martian Manhunter stomps him thor stomps him
jongensoden
jongensoden 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
If he is universal + he is darkseid level and he don't even comes close
soratoumiga
soratoumiga 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
You don't watch DB, you don't get to tell how powerful he is. And he stomps all of them at the same time.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
None of those people stomp him. And kid, you don't even watch Dragon Ball, you have no goddamn idea how strong Goku is.
jongensoden
jongensoden 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
Dragon ballen fanboys are retired do you think Goku beats darkseid
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
How about you actually watch the series before you try to say how strong the characters are?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
As of the current canon in the Broly Saga, Son Goku is casually several times beyond baseline universe level.
show 2 replies
TheNemianLion
TheNemianLion 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
LOL! No!
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Lol, yes. There's too much evidence and author intent pointed towards DBS Goku being easily universal.
TheNemianLion
TheNemianLion 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
2 year member
Rock level, he got hurt by a rock Krillin threw at him.
show 1 replies
cw6334
cw6334 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
1 year member
Boi
JJmeek18
JJmeek18 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
And why?
JJmeek18
JJmeek18 3 mo 13 d
How strong is goku, really?
How strong do you guys think he is in DB Super?