How strong is goku, really?

Starter: JJmeek18

Category: Characters

I've watched Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, and Dragon Ball Super. But I'm confused on why people make him out to be so strong. Let's Talk. No cursing or insulting or you get reported.


He is, hmm idk
Not you dark wing lord is whom I talking about
What do you mean?
1+ years member.
So, you plan on actually moving on, or do you plan on conceding again?
Are you talking to me or him?
1+ years member.
Him, not you.
I plan on leaving you in your happy magical fun land.
1+ years member.
You wouldn't have spoken to me or mentioned me then, if that's what you wish to do.
Goku is overrated. I've meat people who think he solos Marvel/DC, people who think he beats pre retcon beyonder, etc
See I don't think he solos the whole universes that's a little ridiculous but a lot of DC and Marvel universes don't stand a chance but like Goku vs like Celestials or Literal Gods? No chance
I do agree he would be a threat but I don't think he would stand any chance against Franklin Richards, Odin, Jean Grey with any version of the Phoenix, living Tribunal, Beyonder, Dormammu, Molecule Man, White Lantern, Spectre, Trigon, Ares, Anti Monitor, and so much more.
I agree with most of those, I think Jean Grey could be an interesting one.
With which version of the Phoenix?
But those are just a few characters you know, he can beat a TON of characters in each universe.
So to say he is overrated is kind of wrong
There are a ton of characters who could beat him, some even effortlessly.
You really only named a few though? And I guess Dark Phoenix because White Phoenix wouldn't even make it close
White Phoenix of the crown >>> any other Phoenix host
But the fact that she can manipulate matter and such, Goku I guess really can't do anything so I don't know if he could do anything
You didn't have to tell me that White Phoenix is strongest I just said that to you
I thought you said that "white Phoenix wouldn't make it close" I guess I miss understood you
Yeah wouldn't make it close? Meaning that he doesn't stand a chance against it?
And regular Phoenix won't likely be going all out due to the fact that Jean is afraid of losing control
1+ years member.
See, I disagree. A few people saying some outlandish stuff doesn't mean the character is overrated in general. Also, as for that list you gave, obviously Goku can't beat most of those people, a majority of those fights are just plain spite, like really, you felt the need to bring up The Living Tribunal? And Molecule Man? And The Beyonder? However, two of the people on your list, Franklin Richards and Odin: Goku can beat them. If speed is unequalized, Franklin's getting blitzed. And with Odin, current Goku could put up a hard fight with Blue and Blue Kaioken, and Ultra Instinct would defeat Odin.
Yeah but would they beat the beyonder?
Guess what speed isn't equalized.
Says The Who believes in happy magic fun land
1+ years member.
I literally said it was unnecessary to bring up The Beyonder because obviously, Goku can't beat him. And if you paid attention, you'd see that I explicitly said that speed was UNequalized.
You go live in happy magical fun land I have to fight life
I also agree that he is Universal+ and it looks like in the manga right now he is even gonna way beyond transcend that because the villain now Moro is way beyond, currently in the Super Universe he would STOMP ANYONE, the newest chapter hasn't come out yet but my guess is that Majin Buu is gonna be one of the main catalyst of helping stop him but knowing Akira he will probably have Goku find some kind of new level with Ultra Instinct LOL
My opinion it's everyone's opinion to believe it what they want to believe in
1+ years member.
Except opinions are irrelevant when it comes to powerscaling.
Powers scaling is still an opinion cause your still wrong on numbers
Power scaling is irrelevant due to opinions
1+ years member.
Powerscaling is factual, and therefore transcends opinions, which are not based in fact in any way. Opinions are always irrelevant, worthless and shouldn't be used in things like this.
How is factual
Even thought you don't like YouTube videos watch this one this guy proves my point
Dudes got aboslutely no idea what he is talking about.
1+ years member.
Prove your own point, don't duck behind a video. At least restate the point of the video in your own words, because I'm not watching a YouTube video as your "evidence."
It ain't worth your time anyway @Tracer
Why I'm gonna talk to nemian anyway
Death of the author = opinion
1+ years member.
Then it's your opinion, meaning it's irrelevant, because opinions have no place in versus debating or powerscaling.
Deaths of the author still stands
1+ years member.
It doesn't. It's an excuse that doesn't even work, as it opens the door for people to come up with literally anything they want and ignore what the author, the person who CREATED THE MEDIA IN THE FIRST PLACE, wants. And what the author wants overrides fan theories or anything similar. Word of God > everything, unless there are things explicitly shown in the media that go against the Word of God.
Death of the author still stands books are turned movies ever heard of screen writer the write a script for movie game of thrones is Daenerys Targaryen 18 in the book no she's 14 the screen writer made her order for the adaptation so death of the author still stands
1+ years member.
Dude, that's an entirely different series that has nothing to do with the current discussion. Don't change the subject.
It's an example
1+ years member.
And it has nothing to with the fact that Goku is universal, it was said six different times in the anime and even said in the manga, which is separate from the anime.
Death of the author still stand so I've won goku not universal
1+ years member.
You haven't won, death of the author doesn't change the seven different times Goku has been stated universal in two different forms of media, you're just trying to make things go the way you want them because of your own bias.
I made not bias to dragon ball I'm bias to you death of the author still stands you basically said 3 minutes ago that Managa and anime are separate so death of the author still stands
1+ years member.
And I also said Toriyama, the head writer of Dragon Ball, is responsible for both the anime and manga. So no, it doesn't.
1+ years member.
There, I even gave both the mobile and desktop versions of the link.
I saw it that the anime interpretation not the manga like you say it is so death of the author is stands
1+ years member.
The anime and manga are two entirely separate things. Both are equally canon. And Beerus and Goku were still stated to be going to destroy the universe in the manga as well.
The anime is a adaptation of the Managua and made by a separate set of people who are interpreting what the author is saying so death of the author still stands
1+ years member.
That was the case for Z. Not Super. The Super manga and Super anime were written alongside each other and do their own separate things. The Super anime actually finished before the manga, it's not an adaptation. And Toriyama has main input on both, so again, author intent.
Couldn't find it so your lying
1+ years member.

again. Don't just click the link, copy and paste it in another tab. If that doesn't work, that's just your own ineptitude.
I did copy and paste nothing shows up
1+ years member.
Oh for Primus' sake... I just did it and it worked fine.
1+ years member.
Boy, what?! I literally gave a link with the scans. But you know what, I'll post it in a completely isolated comment so there's no possible way it could get messed up. If it doesn't work at that point, it's YOUR fault.
If goku is universal + as everyone says he is the why not fight in base form and body everyone in dragon ball
1+ years member.
Because there's other people that are universal. Duh.
But still if he is universal + with his god form then he no longer need the sayian forms blue or ultra intect to help him out
1+ years member.
What type of fallacious argument is that? You're implying universal is the absolute peak of power and nothing can be beyond it. He's universal in base form and uses his other forms to make him stronger because there's still people stronger than him. Him being universal doesn't mean he no longer needs SSJ1 - SSJ3, SSG, SSGSS or UI, those just make him even stronger.
Dave valor and allsunday debunked this in a video but your to stubborn to watch
1+ years member.
YouTube videos aren't evidence. If you want to say Goku's not universal, (for one, you'd be going against author intent) you're gonna have to disprove it yourself.
Not evidence there more evidence on youtube there is anywhere scratche that YouTube is a good place for evidence there are other placers authors intent you following the logic of death of the author which is debuncked
1+ years member.
YouTube ain't evidence, you're gonna have to do the work yourself if you want to debunk it. Also, death of the author is nothing more than a ****-poor excuse to take whatever you specifically want out of the story to fit your personal views. Aka, bias. The writer's intention means more than anything the reader comes up with, and considering that Dragon Ball has had one writer throughout the entirety of canon, his word means more than anything else. Especially in cases like this, Word of God > everything else.
Author intent doesn't exist Cultural Reader: Short summary: Death of the Author - Roland Barthes
1+ years member.
"Author intent doesn't exist" Uh, yeah it does. The author always has some intention in mind when they're writing the story; that's just how the human brain works. And when Akira Toriyama was writing Battle of Gods and the Beerus Saga, it was reiterated SIX TIMES that Goku and Beerus would have annihilated the universe. That very clearly shows that his intention is for them to be universal. Again, death of the author is just a way for people to cherry pick what they want to be true and ignore things.
Just look this up this proves author intent means nothing "Authorial Intent And "The Death Of The Author" ... This is essentially the concept that regardless of what the author intends to say with a book, the true meaning of a book can only be determined by the reader. In other words, authorial intent means very little.
1+ years member.
In other words, you're just trying to ignore what the author clearly wanted so you can warp the story to say whatever you want. By that logic, I can say that Hal Jordan is stronger than all the Emotional Embodiments because he beat Krona and he only lost his fight with Parallax because he was holding back. That's what "death of the author" and ignoring author intent gets you.
Exactly goku is not universal + because Akira toryama never says its the reader opinion on the writer is saying
1+ years member.
Except Toriyama did say it. Six times.
1+ years member.
Six times in the episode, some of which came from the narrator. It's very clear Toriyama's intention was for them to be universal.
also several other feats throughout the series that show Goku having universal power.
1+ years member.
Universal+, at least, and he can solo base Avengers/JLA, but I know haters gonna hate.
1+ years member.
You're really retired if you think that Superman stomps him Martian Manhunter stomps him thor stomps him
1+ years member.
If he is universal + he is darkseid level and he don't even comes close
1+ years member.
You don't watch DB, you don't get to tell how powerful he is. And he stomps all of them at the same time.
1+ years member.
None of those people stomp him. And kid, you don't even watch Dragon Ball, you have no goddamn idea how strong Goku is.
1+ years member.
Dragon ballen fanboys are retired do you think Goku beats darkseid
1+ years member.
How about you actually watch the series before you try to say how strong the characters are?
1+ years member.
As of the current canon in the Broly Saga, Son Goku is casually several times beyond baseline universe level.
1+ years member.
Lol, yes. There's too much evidence and author intent pointed towards DBS Goku being easily universal.
2+ years member.
Rock level, he got hurt by a rock Krillin threw at him.
And why?
How strong do you guys think he is in DB Super?

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