Karate Kid should be #1 for DC. Taskmaster's not even on your list and he should be #1 for Marvel. Karnak isn't on your list either and he should be third for Marvel. Wolverine is a better fighter than everyone on your Marvel list except Shang-Chi. Black Panther also isn't on your marvel list, and he definitely should be.
I know who Karnak is, and I don't know what you're trying to prove with that page, it says he's a master martial artist, and he is. Why do you think Richard Dragon a better fighter than Karnak
Karate kid whips his ass, no question. Taskmaster can copy moves, not skill. Karate Kid is more deadly and better trained than any other martial artist in comics. Plus, he is able to sense an opponent’s weakest point and strike them there. And again, he has mastered every single martial art of 31 centuries of combat, armed and unarmed. Taskmaster also has trouble copying unpredictable opponents, and considering KK is from the distant future and would know many techniques that he’s never seen before, he would have trouble.
But Taskmaster already has mastered almost every martial art on the planet (for marvel). If you add all of KK fighting skill to that, Taskmaster would have unstoppable fighting ability
You're not getting it. Taskmaster can copy someone's moves by looking at them. He DOES NOT copy their skill. So yeah, he could perform moves KK does, but he isn't even close to KK in terms of skill or feats. He would be using moves that he's never seen before against someone who is a master of them. His copying ability is going to close that gap.
Taskmaster has amazing fighting technique though, maybe not as good as Karate Kid, but Taskmaster at least knows every martial art KK does, KK doesn't know half of Taskmasters fighting styles
Not even close to Karate Kid. That is vastly incorrect. Like I said, KK is a master of every single martial art up to the 31st century. He is from the distant future. He would know hundreds of martial arts that Taskmaster wouldn't, but all styles Taskmaster learned KK would know.
Taskmaster is from a different universe though, so no, KK wouldn't know any of taskmaster's martial arts, even down to basic Hand-style training. Everything KK knows Taskmaster knows too, but not vice-versa.
That's not how it works. Taskmaster has to see you perform a move to copy it. He doesn't just look at you and instantly know every martial art you do. He copies individual moves and techniques. With how fast KK is, he might not even have time to do so. Even if what you say is true, it really doesn't matter. The point is that Karate Kid is his superior in skill and in feats performed.
KK is not necessarily better feats-wise. One KK uses a move, Taskmaster can use it. This chat is just asking about pure fighting ability, so speed isn't a factor. Taskmaster has whole martial arts available that KK didn't know existed, and he can't instantly master them like Taskmaster can.Taskmaster has virtually no limit when it comes to fighting skill.
Absolutely, he is. He has taken on and even defeated kryptonians and villains that even Superman could not take down. He literally has chopped diamonds in half with his bare hands. Skill is different than copying a move. I can copy a roundhouse kick that I see someone perform, but that by no means makes me as good as them at it. KK is much more skilled and also can find Taskmaster's weak points. I don't think you quite understand how truly outclassed Taskmaster is against someone like KK.
Any skill that KK does, Taskmaster can do. He does copy the skill, in a way. If KK can break diamonds, Taskmaster can. And Taskamster's taken down people to the level of Hyperion with ease, so it's not like KK has a huge upper hand with feats.
Not as well as KK. He copies the move, not the skill. Plus, it's not like KK is going to sit there and let Taskmaster watch him. He's going to be fighting him. That's not how it works. Taskmaster does not copy an opponent's strength. You again are not being honest. Again, we are talking about fighting ability. KK is the better fighter by a substantial margin.
Taskmaster copies the ability, which means he can do it just as well as KK. KK doesn't know Taskmaster's martial arts, which gives Taskmaster an advantage long enough to have mastered any ability KK uses.
Nope, he copies the move, not the experience. He doesn't know any of KK's martial arts either, and he can only copy individual moves. Once they start fighting, Taskmaster will be outclassed far before he could learn enough to even the playing field.
He learns instantly though, and even if KK won for some reason, after the encounter Taskmaster would be a far superior fighter, since he's mastered every ability KK used. Karate Kid is the ultimate fighter, but Taskmaster is just an unstoppable fighting machine
None of you know Karate Kid as a character and his capabilities. Skill and knowing a move aren’t the same thing. Taskmaster has lost to opponents way less skilled than Karate Kid. Also, if you disagree with me, tell me why instead of downvoting me.
@Mr_Incognito I admit that I know nothing about KK. Does he have some secret abilities though that I am unaware of?
Also, has Taskmaster ever lost to someone weaker than KK? Because IICR the weakest person to beat him was Deadpool, who is vastly physically superior to either of them, with little skill to boot, making it hard for Taskmaster to match him.
Yeah, i've been trying to say for a while now that Karate Kid can sense an oppponent's weak points with just a look. That's how he defeats some of his tougher opponents, combined with his insane amount of skill. That isn't a "move" or anything like that, so it isn't something that could be copied. He would find a weak point and given his absurd amount of skill, would strike it.
If it's combat related, Taskmaster can copy it. What we're talking about is pure fighting skill, and anything that falls under the category of fighting skill Taskmaster can copy. Unlike @Taurus, I'm plenty familiar with Karate Kid, and I understand how his fighting skills are on another level, but that doesn't mean anything he does is unable to be copied. I think it may be you who isn't familiar with Taskmaster @Mr_Incognito
@Mr_Incognito Taskmaster is wearing a suit, meaning the only weaknesses to be sensed are is his fighting style, which would be KK's most probably, which would mean taskmaster could do anything back to him. @Savage I'm assuming this is without gear? Cause Taskmaster has mastered all that as well.
@Taurus Idk if weapon skills should be counted here, they do probably fall under the category of fighting skill, but it would be a very different discussion. Swordsmanship for instance seems like it could just be a different topic entirely, I've been thinking just about hand-to-hand combat for the most part.
I kind of doubt you’re familiar with Karate Kid, given that you left him out of your top ten combatants. You’re seriously overestimating Taskmaster’s skill. Skill is not the same as the amount of moves you know. The difference between them is that Karate Kid is WAY more skilled. As Bruce Lee said, “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.”
My original list basically just ignored DC. Taskmaster's whole thing is that for him practicing a kick once IS practicing a kick 10,000 times. That's what he does. That's literally his power.
This sums it up best
@Mr_Incognito Stop assuming we don't know KK. You of all people should be wary about assuming to know characters you don't. Whenever Taskmaster's lost its been to people who had no fighting pattern to copy (Deadpool) or people physically better than himself (CA). Even then he's done pretty well against both.
Also I haven't been downvoting you. If I had I would have done so in the other debates. Also I joined this debate relatively late anyway.
He isn’t a well known character. People don’t know much about him generally speaking. It’s good you mentioned him losing to people who are his physical superiors, you know who also is superior physically? Karate Kid.
@Mr_Incognito@Tyrannus
It's not about who's physically superior though, that's not what this is about, it's about who's better as far as pure fighting skill. Karate Kid might be stronger, but that's not important here, what matters is who is a technically better fighter, which is Taskmaster, since he can copy anything that KK does, plus everything he's already mastered.
Karate Kid is the better fighter, no question. Taskmaster can only copy individual moves, and considering how many more fighting styles KK knows, by the time they’re actually fighting there’s no way Taskmaster can equal him in skill. KK regularly has given kryptonians like Superboy and Supergirl trouble, and this was pre-crisis when they were broken characters.
Taskmaster can take down giants with ease
He fights Captain America
He takes out Spider-Man
Hell this guy takes on goddamn thor
And we already saw him take down Hyperion
The thing is, those aren’t outliers. KK fights beings of that caliber regularly. That’s what sets him apart from characters like taskmaster. Taskmaster isn’t even the best fighter in marvel. To argue he beats a character above any marvel fighter is plain stupid.
@Mr_Incognito If your only argument is feats at this point, than I'm afraid you've already lost. Do you need even more Taskmaster feats? I've already provided a bunch. @Tyrannus Yes. Taskmaster basically has infinite fighting ability, no non-enhanced person can best him. @MrJaeger07 Why would Iron Fist be a better fighter than Taskmaster? Taskmaster can copy any combat skill Iron Fist has
@Alien_X@Deandinosaur@Mrjaeger07 and many more all agree that Karate Kid is number one. The comics dictate he is first in terms of skill. Taskmaster can’t copy skill, he can copy moves he’s seen you perform. Karate Kid knows thousands upon thousands of techniques Taskmaster has never even heard of. He will not be able to learn all Kk’s moves before it’s too late. Plus, karate kid is much more skilled, which is what we are arguing about here.
Taskmaster isn't from DC so claiming he's #1 doesn't work here. And the point everyone's trying to make is it doesn't matter how much more skilled he is as Taskmaster can just copy.
@Taurus I mean that Danny without hardening his fist is like a normal human but with the same skills, so it's not the same as being ''enhanced''. @Savage Copying movements is a Taskmaster's own ability, it's not exactly the same as skill and does it mean that anyone with the same ability would already be the #1 as fighter? We're talking about pure skill here, so that sounds a bit cheating really.
@Mr_Incognito Actually he's very similar to amazo, he's like the amazo of fighting skill. There's nothing KK can do that Taskmaster can't, simple as that. Also, what's the point of mentioning people who agree with you? I believe that people agree with you, it doesn't make me change my mind. People agree with me too. @MrJaeger07 I don't know how that's cheating. Is a person who's smart and has photographic memory cheating?
I fully agree with everything @Taurus and @Tyrannus are saying, and I think what we're all trying to say is that Taskmaster can do anything and everything KK can do fighting wise, and more. The only way KK could even hope to win is by some means other than pure fighting skill, and we're only talking about combat here.
@Mr_Incognito Amazo copies powers. Taskmaster's abilities put KK in a catch 22 situation. If he uses a move Taskmaster doesn't know, he would have just revealed it to him now. If he doesn't try anything new then he can't copy but then how would he win.
A lot of times people won't include Taskmaster and other characters with copying abilities because of this very reason. Then again, is Hawkeye more powerful than Rogue?
Black Widow was trained in the Red Room by the KGB and has been trained by many more, she's worked for shield and trained under them many many times, and constantly takes on super powered people.
Bruh Black Widow destroy's the Punisher. Again, she's been trained by some of the best on earth, and she's known as shield's best fighter, compared to her, the punisher can barely fight. Black Widow is a super ninja assassin, who fights on the avengers a bunch. Black Widow could take out the punisher and catwoman at the same time, easy. You gotta provide some reason to back up your opinions here.
Personally, I'd:
1) Put Shang-Chi in #2 (only behind Karate Kid.)
2) Put Lady Shiva in front of Iron Fist
3) Put Cassandra Cain behind Batman but in front of Ra's
4) Put Black Panther in front of Ra's
5) Put Taskmaster and Daredevil way higher up
And that's pretty much it. Maybe put Wolverine and Elektra higher, Deathstroke lower, etc. But that seems like a good list overall.
Karnak should be wayy higher, and pretty much everything @Alien_X said was right. Ozymandias seems a little random, he can catch bullets, but I would put Bullseye on this list over him easily
I'd atleast put Deathstroke on that list, many people sleeps on Slade's skill, he has outmatched Batman and Ra's Al Ghul many times and almost no one at his level has managed to surpass him in combat, heck, he's one of the best fighters from DC.
Wolverine has mastered almost every martial art on the planet, and has been fighting for years and years. I would put him above Iron Fist, Batman, or Deathstroke
Wolverine is very good and has more experience than almost everyone here put together. However he rarely implements his knowledge in battle and often resorts to simple brawling when things don't go his way.
@Tyrannus True, but a lot of the time when he does that it's because he's in a situation where he doesn't want to kill people. He certainly has plenty of combat skill feats.
He's mastered every martial art on the planet, with a few exceptions of secret martial arts (like black panther fighting using shadow physics). He should be ahead of most people on that list in my opinion
I thought of these off the top of my head, I'm probably wrong in some spots.
1. Karate Kid
2. Shang-Chi
3. Taskmaster
4. Lady Shiva
5. Daredevil
6. Richard Dragon
7. T'Challa
8. Elektra
9. Iron Fist
10. Batman
but take karate kid, if taskmaster fought karate kid taskmaster would become a master in every way that karate kid is. Taskmaster has basically infinite combat abilities
I agree heavily with @Savage. And why is it cheating that he learns more proficiently? The only reason he loses to Wade is because his fighting style is random, and that he has super powers.
Bruh. If all of them had Hulk's strength and no other powers Taskmaster would win, period. This is a skill only battle. Taskmaster takes this by a landslide.
I wouldn't really say landslide, maybe if they actually fought each other then Taskmaster would win, but I'm using their skill based on before, not based on what might happen if they fought.
Taskmaster has mastered more fighting styles already, and even if you disagree he masters as he's fighting. That what makes adapters like Hulk or Doomsday so powerful.
Well he definitely can beat Shang-Chi, since there from the same universe. Taskmaster has mastered every martial art Shang-Chi has ever heard of and more
He can take anyone without exceptional super powers in a fight. If someone just gave the damn guy some super serum or something he'd kick everyone's @.
@Mr_Incognito Taskmaster because whoever he fights he insta-copies their moves, more accurately than iron Man's suit. The only way you could beat him is with a combo of the following: superior gear, superior strength/power, or random fighting style (also having a vast advantage in either of the first two)
@Taurus He can copy your moves, but not your skill. With the centuries of martial arts he’s mastered, Karate Kid has more skill and also better feats. Even if taskmaster copied all his moves, Karate Kid is more skilled in using them. Taskmaster also has failed to copy or predict characters moves, like Deadpool.
And just the fact that he was able to take on Deadpool, who has incredible powers as an advantage, without copying his moves shows that his initial skill is immense as well.
@Savage That’s an ignorant statement. That’s ridiculous to say. Karate Kid also can sense the weakest point in an object or person with his mind. He can punch through solid steel with nothing but his bare hands. He’d find the weak point and take taskmaster out.
How is he a fanboy? He's neither of our favorites, we just acknowledge the facts on this one. He doesn't need time to study, he can insta-copy the moves. And again, in a fight KK might win but only because of other factors, not skill. Only skill 10/10, other factors idk
How does punching holes in things come in?
Karate Kid is basically Karnak, Shang-Chi and Taskmaster rolled into one. Karate Kid is simply far above Taskmaster. Can he even copy before being defeated? Karate Kid's reaction speed is enough to knock Kryptonians into the ground.
Taurus is just trying to mock me over a comment I made like usual. @Alien_X is right here. He’s actually read up on both characters, not just one of them. Karate Kid is literally considered a superhuman by the legion of superheroes because of how fast he is.
The bottom line is that KK has far superior feats. Taskmaster can copy his moves, but he can’t copy his strength, reflexes, agility, and skill, which are on par with kryptonians like Superboy and Supergirl, who would solo all of the other characters on this list easily.
@Mr_Incognito For someone who bashes @Tyrannus for "making assumptions about you", even when he has valid evidence, you sure do a lot of it yourself. The fact is that I wasn't, so screw off.
Anyhow, that's exactly my point. He is superhuman; that's why he's a good fighter. This is skill only. Read the description. I'm done here.
@Savage That’s not true. Unlimited isn’t what it is. @Taurus You were making fun of how I said KK can punch through solid steel by saying “apparently punching holes in things.” So yeah, you were, so you screw off.
No, you misinterpreted what I said. He is CONSIDERED superhuman because of his skill, but he isn’t actually superhuman in any way. He just appears that way because of his skill.
@Savage -_- Dude.
Shang-Chi: Was admitted by Iron Fist to be superior, has the undisputed deadliest hands in all of Kung Fu, called the world's greatest martial artist by Jimmy Woo.
Karnak: Takes down Black Widow, detected Daredevil's blindness, easily tosses the Thing, splits a bullet in half, shatters Vibranium.
Karate Kid: Endures the Pain Plague, gives Superboy a run for his money, shatters a diamond prison while dying.
Can Taskmaster do all of that?
Seriously. How does Taskmaster even contend with guys like Shang-Chi and Karate Kid? The only reason he might be able to would be his photographic reflexes, and even then it would be far-fetched.
Okay, fair enough, but I still think Taskmaster should be first. He's mastered everything marvel, even down to personal fighting styles of expert fighters. Karate Kid can't match that, even with every DC martial art. I also think Marvel has a wider range of martial arts, so if Karate Kid has mastered every martial art of DC up until the 31st century, and Taskmaster has mastered every Marvel martial art up until the 21st century, I think Taskmaster wins
You raise a pretty good point, but 1000 years is a long time. Lots of things can happen, and lots of martial arts can be developed. So I don't think I'll put Taskmaster that high. Maybe above Shang-Chi, but I think I'll just leave Taskmaster in third.
I've edited my list now. Wanna look and tell me what you think now?
Alright, I see your point. I would rank it by if they meet, so I would put taskmaster in first, but if you rank them without them fighting each other, like you are, I agree with your list (for the most part, I would put wolverine on there and put T'Challa above Daredevil, but that's just me). Nice list.
You can't honestly believe KK throwing Superman like he did wasn't PIS. Because if that counts then Taskmaster defo wins. He recently Hyperion (one of Marvel's Superman).
Yeah @Tyrannus is right, plus KK taking down superman was an old comic, and honestly the older the comics get the weirder the power levels. Modern comics are much better at keeping power consistency, so a DC comic from the silver age shouldn't get much credit when it comes to feats.
Maybe this was due to prep time and the intellect advantage.
But still. My main reason I didn't put him on my list is because I don't know as much about him as I know the others.
All of these fighters are great and this is just the list I thought of off the top of my head. I may be forgetting a couple of characters or be wrong about a few of these placements.
20. Black Widow
19. Connor Hawke
18. Elektra
17. Nightwing
16. Ra's al Ghul
15. Daredevil
14. Bronze Tiger
13. Karnak
12. Wolverine
11. Cassandra Cain
10. Deathstroke
9. Taskmaster
8. Black Panther
7. Captain America
6. Batman
5. Iron Fist
4. Shang-Chi
3. Lady Shiva
2. Richard Dragon
1. Karate Kid
Where would you put Karate Kid (a guy who mastered every form of martial arts up until the 31st century), Richard Dragon (superior fighter than Lady Shiva), and Lady Shiva (superior fighter than Batman)
Yeah I was really thinking only about marvel when I made this, than I added some dc characters, My top 10 would have to be
10. Lady Shiva
9. Black Panther
8. Stick
7. Ra's Al Ghule
6. Richard Dragon
5. Karate Kid
4. Wolverine
3.Shang-Chi
2. Karnak
1. Taskmaster
My first list wasn't really thinking about DC at all, so don't worry about it, as for my second list, I would say Lady Shiva is a better fighter than Deathstroke
19. Gorgon
18. Deathstroke
17. Batman
16. Elektra
15. Bullseye
14. Cassandra Cain
13. Karnak
12. Stick
11. Iron Fist
10. Lady Shiva
9. Daredevil
8. Richard Dragon
7. Sabretooth
6. Captain America
5. Black Panther
4. Wolverine
3. Shang-Chi
2. Karate Kid
1. Taskmaster
Yes.
There's also this
Marvel
10. Luke Cage/Jessica Jones
9. Spider-Man
8. Moon Knight
7. Wolverine
6. Daredevil
5. Captain America
4. Elektra
3. Gamora
2. Iron Fist
1. Shang-Chi
DC
10. Ra's Al Ghul
9. Constantine Drakon
8. Merlyn
7. Wildcat
6. Green Arrow
5. Nightwing
4. Karate Kid
3. Black Canary
2. Batman/Lady Shiva
1. Richard Dragon
I Know 1 Million % Of you will Disagree with my List, but tell me some Corrections I Can Fix
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Karnak_Mander-Azur_(Earth-616)
He's not even a Fighter
Also, has Taskmaster ever lost to someone weaker than KK? Because IICR the weakest person to beat him was Deadpool, who is vastly physically superior to either of them, with little skill to boot, making it hard for Taskmaster to match him.
This sums it up best
Also I haven't been downvoting you. If I had I would have done so in the other debates. Also I joined this debate relatively late anyway.
It's not about who's physically superior though, that's not what this is about, it's about who's better as far as pure fighting skill. Karate Kid might be stronger, but that's not important here, what matters is who is a technically better fighter, which is Taskmaster, since he can copy anything that KK does, plus everything he's already mastered.
He fights Captain America
He takes out Spider-Man
Hell this guy takes on goddamn thor
And we already saw him take down Hyperion
@Tyrannus Yes. Taskmaster basically has infinite fighting ability, no non-enhanced person can best him.
@MrJaeger07 Why would Iron Fist be a better fighter than Taskmaster? Taskmaster can copy any combat skill Iron Fist has
@Savage Copying movements is a Taskmaster's own ability, it's not exactly the same as skill and does it mean that anyone with the same ability would already be the #1 as fighter? We're talking about pure skill here, so that sounds a bit cheating really.
@MrJaeger07 I don't know how that's cheating. Is a person who's smart and has photographic memory cheating?
I fully agree with everything @Taurus and @Tyrannus are saying, and I think what we're all trying to say is that Taskmaster can do anything and everything KK can do fighting wise, and more. The only way KK could even hope to win is by some means other than pure fighting skill, and we're only talking about combat here.
2. Shang-Chi
3. Richard Dragon
4. Lady Shiva
5. Iron Fist
6. Cassandra Cain
7. Deathstroke
8. Batman
9. Taskmaster
10. Black Panther
11. Ra's Al Ghul
12. Captain America
13. Daredevil
14. Bronze Tiger
15. Elektra
16. Nightwing
17. Wolverine
18. Karnak
19. Red Hood
20. Ozymandias
1) Put Shang-Chi in #2 (only behind Karate Kid.)
2) Put Lady Shiva in front of Iron Fist
3) Put Cassandra Cain behind Batman but in front of Ra's
4) Put Black Panther in front of Ra's
5) Put Taskmaster and Daredevil way higher up
And that's pretty much it. Maybe put Wolverine and Elektra higher, Deathstroke lower, etc. But that seems like a good list overall.
2. Richard Dragon
3. Lady Shiva
4. Shang-Chi
5. Iron fist
6. Cassandra Cain
7. Deathstroke
8. Batman
9. Black Panther
10. Taskmaster
Daredevil
Karate Kid
Batman
Captain America
Black Panther
Bronze Tiger
Deathstroke
Shang-Chi
Lady Shiva
1. Karate Kid
2. Shang-Chi
3. Taskmaster
4. Lady Shiva
5. Daredevil
6. Richard Dragon
7. T'Challa
8. Elektra
9. Iron Fist
10. Batman
Honarable Mentions: Wolverine, Nightwing
@Mr_Incognito Taskmaster is a better in terms of pure combat skill
😂🤣😂🤣😂
Karate Kid is basically Karnak, Shang-Chi and Taskmaster rolled into one. Karate Kid is simply far above Taskmaster. Can he even copy before being defeated? Karate Kid's reaction speed is enough to knock Kryptonians into the ground.
Anyhow, that's exactly my point. He is superhuman; that's why he's a good fighter. This is skill only. Read the description. I'm done here.
@Taurus You were making fun of how I said KK can punch through solid steel by saying “apparently punching holes in things.” So yeah, you were, so you screw off.
No, you misinterpreted what I said. He is CONSIDERED superhuman because of his skill, but he isn’t actually superhuman in any way. He just appears that way because of his skill.
Shang-Chi: Was admitted by Iron Fist to be superior, has the undisputed deadliest hands in all of Kung Fu, called the world's greatest martial artist by Jimmy Woo.
Karnak: Takes down Black Widow, detected Daredevil's blindness, easily tosses the Thing, splits a bullet in half, shatters Vibranium.
Karate Kid: Endures the Pain Plague, gives Superboy a run for his money, shatters a diamond prison while dying.
Can Taskmaster do all of that?
@Mr_Incognito agreed
I've edited my list now. Wanna look and tell me what you think now?
@Mr_Incognito "You don't know me"
@Tyrannus Thanks for the scan man
But still. My main reason I didn't put him on my list is because I don't know as much about him as I know the others.
20. Black Widow
19. Connor Hawke
18. Elektra
17. Nightwing
16. Ra's al Ghul
15. Daredevil
14. Bronze Tiger
13. Karnak
12. Wolverine
11. Cassandra Cain
10. Deathstroke
9. Taskmaster
8. Black Panther
7. Captain America
6. Batman
5. Iron Fist
4. Shang-Chi
3. Lady Shiva
2. Richard Dragon
1. Karate Kid
9. Batman
8. Daredevil
7. Sabretooth
6. Stick
5. Wolverine
4. Shang-Chi
3. Ra's al Ghul
2. Karnak
1. Taskmaster
10. Lady Shiva
9. Black Panther
8. Stick
7. Ra's Al Ghule
6. Richard Dragon
5. Karate Kid
4. Wolverine
3.Shang-Chi
2. Karnak
1. Taskmaster