Searching...

YodavsDarth Vader

Created by yuvaladom7

128 wins (74.9%)
3 (1.8%)
40 wins (23.4%)
YodaYodaStar Wars
power stats
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Official Superhero Database stats. | Class: 0
Darth VaderAnakin SkywalkerStar Wars
power stats
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Official Superhero Database stats. | Class: 0

Comments

LadyGaladriel1212
Yoda vs Darth Vader
15 months member
10.1K
Yoda Yoda stomps
2099
2099 3 mo 12 h 50 m
Yoda vs Darth Vader
23 months member
6.3K
Darth Vader Lawrence Kasdan: "You mean he (Yoda) wouldn't be any good in a fight?"
George Lucas: "Not with Darth Vader, he wouldn't"
Xml
Xml 3 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
15 months member
10.3K
Darth Vader Darth Vader
show 1 reply
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 mo 2 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda You didn't need to just say his name. You could explain why. We all know who voted for who on the side
Gr
Groot123 1 y 4 mo 8 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
35 months member
696
Darth Vader Beide sind zirka gleich stark
Pedrof
Pedrof 1 y 6 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
32 months member
34.7K
Yoda Yoda's Advantages
1 - Yoda is faster
2 - Yoda is a better duelist
3 - Yoda is more powerful (Don't get me wrong, Vader has MUCH more potential, but Yoda is more powerful because Vader was never able to master his full potential and become the real The Chosen One)
4 - Yoda is smarter

Vader's Advantages
1 - Darth Vader has more destructive power
2 - Darth Vader has much more feats
3 - Darth Vader can fight for days and weeks, while Yoda gets tired quickly

In the end I think that Yoda wins, he can rival Sidious.
Last edited: 1 y 6 mo 9 d ago.
show 1 reply
Mahan86
Mahan86 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
0 months member
5
Darth Vader Lawrence Kasdan: "You mean he (Yoda) wouldn't be any good in a fight?"
George Lucas: "Not with Darth Vader, he wouldn't"
Albus_Dumbledore_Stark
Albus_Dumbledore_Stark 1 y 11 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
23 months member
248
Yoda Yoda>Palpatine>Vader
show 4 replies
Taurus
Taurus 1 y 11 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
28 months member
5.1K
Yoda Switch Palpatine and Vader around and your golden.
Pedrof
Pedrof 1 y 7 mo 18 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
32 months member
34.7K
Yoda Palpatine>Yoda>Vader
hb
hbn 1 y 7 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
19 months member
5K
Darth Vader in ROS, Yoda>Palp, but Palp got way stronger of duration of the empire. In ROS lightside Anakin, yoda, and mace were said as the only ones who could have fought with palps putting them at least pretty close in terms of combat. Vader became more powerful than light side anakin who was comparable to yoda in ROS. Vader> Yoda. Really close though. I think this is one of the hardest fights to judge in star wars because they are so close in power but so different in fight style.
Pedrof
Pedrof 1 y 7 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
32 months member
34.7K
Yoda In comics:
Sidious>Yoda>Vader
Movies:
Yoda>Sidious>Vader
Loxblin
Loxblin 2 y 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
28 months member
2.1K
Darth Vader Vader stomps
Nvm i was dumb
Last edited: 1 y 4 mo 11 d ago.
show 1 reply
Prion
Prion 2 y 7 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
32 months member
7.1K
Yoda Please explain how Vader wins.
Last edited: 2 y 7 d ago.
DarthNihilus003
DarthNihilus003 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
32 months member
4.6K
Darth Vader Depends on what Yoda or Vader you use.
If prime Yoda: Yoda
If from the prequels: Vader barley
show 4 replies
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 7 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Always use the prime versions.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 5 mo 7 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader What do we know about prime Yoda?
DarthNihilus003
DarthNihilus003 2 y 5 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
32 months member
4.6K
Darth Vader Prime Yoda is at his most powerful.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Agreed which is why we use the prime versions of both.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 5 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader
show 2 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 5 mo 12 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader Who downvoted?!?! I just posted scan from the book Star Wars Head to Head! If you don't like it attack the writers not the messenger!
Last edited: 6 mo 4 d ago.
DarthNihilus003
DarthNihilus003 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
32 months member
4.6K
Darth Vader @Dark_Wing I upvoted.
Heroclix21
Heroclix21 2 y 5 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
30 months member
2.4K
Yoda Stomp
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 6 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader That moment when Vader was stated to be the second strongest being in the galaxy during the Empire era. O_O
Last edited: 2 y 6 mo 26 d ago.
show 58 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 6 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader He was never said to be that! Also Ben Kenobi and Luke are laughing there butts off if you think that. Also the only reason Yoda was so weak at that point was because he was sick (not kidding) only holding on because of the Light Side Force and his will to train Luke.
Last edited: 2 y 6 mo 26 d ago.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader "He was never said to be that!"
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Vader is the strongest of Sidious' disciples. This puts him above Dooku, who consistently scales to Yoda (albeit beneath him).

"Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebels' Pinnacle Base."
> Handbook 3: Dark Empire
—————
Vader is superior to Kar Vastor, who Windu stated was comparable to Yoda.

"Nick Rostu knew darkness.

He had, after all, stood with the Jedi Master Mace Windu against Kar Vastor in the steaming jungles of Haruun Kal. Kar Vastor, leader of the Balawai resistance; Kar Vastor, with his arm-mounted vibroblade weapons and his almost supernatural strength. Kar Vastor, stronger in the Force than any of the Korunnai, stronger than any in the galaxy, perhaps, save for the Jedi. Kar Vastor, so submerged in the dark side that, even though Nick had been only a couple of meters away from him during that final battle, eventhough he could see the man as clearly as he could see Mace, or Iolu, the guard who'd sliced him from sternum to navel-still, looking back on it now, he realized he couldn't visualize the guerrilla leader's face. It was as if the Balawai commander had been shrouded in darkness, somehow, as if the dark side of the Force radiated a strange anti-light. Kar Vastor had been the essence, the personification, of primal power, jungle savagery, and bloodlust distilled into flesh. Nick had never seen anyone or anything to match him.

Until now.

Until he stood, unarmed, before Darth Vader."
> Coruscant Nights I: Jedi Twilight
—————
Vader is the second strongest being in the galaxy. This puts him above not only Yoda, but Gethzerion, who RotJ Sidious saw as a major threat.

"Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, has instilled terror throughout the galaxy since the beginning of the Empire. His devotion to the Emperor and mastery of the dark side gives him more power than any single individual in the galaxy except for the Emperor himself."
> Shadows Of The Empire: Prince Xizor vs. Darth Vader Action Figure (Kenner)

"In his distinctive black armor, Vader is an imposing figure. In the entire galaxy, he is second in power only to the Emperor himself."
> Insider 65

"For the first time he could remember, the dark side had no answer. And a great surge of unfamiliar emotion suddenly washed over him.

Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith's apprentice, one of the two most powerful beings in the galaxy, was afraid."
> Death Star
—————
Vader is believed by Jax Pavan, a Clone Wars era Jedi, to be the most powerful Force wielder he's ever seen. All Clone Wars era Jedi would know of Yoda, as he does help the younglings train.

"Abruptly he experienced a sudden tingle that vibrated the lines of the Force—a plangent throb telling him that a new player was approaching the blasted landscape of the Factory District. Someone extremely strong in the Force—stronger than he'd ever encountered before. It could mean only one thing:

Darth Vader was coming."
> Coruscant Nights I: Jedi Twilight
—————
RotJ Luke was also stated to be the most powerful Jedi, which Vader himself reiterated.


"A warrior needed to contend with equals. Obi-Wan was gone, and the other Jedi were all extinct, save one, who was the strongest of them all. His own son. He had told the Emperor that Luke Skywalker would join them or die. The real truth was only slightly different: Luke would join Darth Vader or die. It would be something to look forward to. That would be the duel of a lifetime. This wasn't even exercise."
> Shadows of the Empire

Luke before RotJ is also stated to be comparable, maybe even stronger than RotS Anakin, who is arguably on par with RotS Sidious and Yoda, maybe just BARELY beneath them.

"He would never go back to what he had been mentally. Weak, foolish, idealistic. Anakin had been much like Luke Skywalker was now. Mere... potential. Yes, the Force was strong in Luke, perhaps stronger than it had been in Anakin. But the boy needed to embrace the dark side, to learn where the real power was, to achieve his true promise. If he did not, the Emperor would destroy Luke. Vader did not want that."
> Shadows of the Empire

RotJ Sidious also feared Luke's POWER, not potential.

"Luke paused, for he saw something else, as well; something he hadn't seen before in the Emperor. Fear.

Luke saw fear in the Emperor—fear of Luke. Fear of Luke's power, fear that this power could be turned on him—on the Emperor—in the same way Vader had turned it on Obi-Wan Kenobi. Luke saw this fear in the Emperor—and he knew, now, the odds had shifted slightly. He had glimpsed the Emperor's nakedest self."
> Return of the Jedi

So don't sleep on Vader. Or Luke.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 16 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Come on Dooku was no where near Yoda. I love Dooku but he was shaken after their duel and was clearly no match.
Also was some for that from the canon material because it's only in canon where I've seen references to Vader being that strong
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Actually, there's several statements of Dooku being nearly as powerful as Yoda. He's still beneath him, granted, but he is nearly comparable. I'll try to find some of those quotes.

Nope, all of that was from the EU. Vader is extremely powerful in the EU, way more powerful than I used to think he was.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader "Yoda's green blade caught the blow, holding the red lightsaber at bay, locking the two in a contest of strength, physical and of the Force."
> Attack of the Clones

"Dooku's strength in the Force made him enigmatic for even Yoda."
> Attack of the Clones: The Ultimate Illustrated Guide

"It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force... but by our skills with a lightsaber."
> Dooku, Attack of the Clones

"The old Master was so accomplished in every aspect of the Force that until the Battle of Geonosis he had rarely needed to resort to his weapon. When he did, he proved as masterful with it as without."
> Star Wars Fact File

"The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched."
> Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force

"The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other."
> The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

"Yoda was not that one.

Aged, experienced, diplomatic, informative, brilliant with a lightsaber... Yes, all of these things. And not unacquainted with the power of the dark side. For that reason he understood just how dangerous this new Sith Lord was. He hadn't had a sense of that danger until he had fought Dooku on Geonosis."
> Labyrinth of Evil
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 15 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda I believe in the novel it explains how Dooku was confident he could beat Yoda but seconds after fighting he began fighting for his life instead. I found the comic meanwhile.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 15 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader That comic scan seems to refer entirely to dueling skill, not Force power. And even then, Dooku has quite a few statements on being relative to Windu and Yoda in dueling skill. And the novel says the two are evenly matched in Force power, as said by the first quote I posted.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 15 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Yoda was second to none when it came to duelling. If Dooku was somehow comparable to Yoda in the force then that makes him also comparable to Sidious if not superior. Is that what your saying?

Are you talking about the book by Salvator?
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 15 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Actually Anakin is stated to be a better duelist than Yoda iirc. He was actually stated to be the most dangerous being in the entire universe by Nick Gillard, the stunt coordinator for RotS. And I said Dooku is NEARLY comparable to Yoda. And considering the fact that Anakin, who overpowered Dooku, is consistently stated to be on the same level as Yoda and Sidious, and Dooku has numerous statements of being on Yoda's level in force power, yeah, Dooku is nearly comparable to Yoda and Sidious.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about, as well as various other sources that say Yoda >= Dooku.

By the way, if you want the quotes about Anakin being comparable to Yoda and Sidious, both in Force power and dueling skill, I can provide them.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 15 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 15 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Vader later learnt form 2, 3 and 5 but Yoda mastered everything. Yoda's ataru would be too fast for Vader.
Consistently on Yoda and Sidious's level? How? In Son of Dathomir Dooku refused Maul's combined offer with Grievous and Mother Talzin because Sidious was far stronger and would still beat them.

That can't be true because Dooku was never shown to be close to Sidious. He feared him in Son of Dathomir.

Please do so.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader You know Vader's mastered all forms of lightsaber combat as well, right...?

You can fear someone and still be nearly as powerful as them. Vader feared Sidious despite being 80% as powerful as him, as stated by George Lucas and supported by numerous other statements. Also Dooku is stated to be on the same level as Yoda several times, so one or two moments from one story doesn't override all of that.

As for the quotes of Anakin's dueling skill being relative to Yoda and Sidious:

"Anakin's style has changed completely between Episode II and Episode III. He now no longer cares. He knows he's unbeatable. He's far more dangerous than anybody in the universe."
Nick Gillard

"When I started, I figured that a youngling is a level one. And somebody like Kit Fisto - seven. I did take it to eight and nine, but not many people know that. Eight and nine is cheat. So Obi-Wan is eight. Yoda is nine. Mace is eight, bordering on nine. Anakin is nine."
>


"The level is not necessarily an indication of the performer's talent, but it takes a truly gifted and physically skilled actor to play a powerful Jedi combatant. 'Hayden Christensen is one of the best there is,' says Gillard. 'I've seen hundreds of sword fighters, people who do it for a living, and he leaves them all in his wake. His style has changed a bit since Episode II, when he was only a level seven. On this he's a level nine.' For the curious, Gillard does not reveal any Jedi who has achieved level ten. The highest is nine, occupied by a small number of capable sword masters, including Yoda and Darth Sidious. At so high a ranking, it comes down to individual fighting styles as well as the circumstances of the surroundings that make a difference."
> http://web.archive.org/web/20051202222123/http://starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/beacon126.html

"In the Jedi levels of lightsaber fighting, Obi-Wan is an eight, while Anakin, Yoda and Darth Sidious are nines."
> http://www.theforce.net/episode3/jtf/palpatine.asp

And as for Force power:

"This makes Anakin, in effect, a Jedi Master, a rank that Anakin, with his unprecedented power in the Force, feels has been long overdue."
> Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."
> Revenge of the Sith

"Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived."
> The Making of Revenge of the Sith

"Even after all these months, she couldn't make herself entirely believe that actual Jedi blood ran in her veins-not only Jedi blood, but the blood of arguably the most powerful Jedi in history."
> Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."
> Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith

"We won't try, Anakin. We will do. After all, they are only Senators. Most of them couldn't hide what they're thinking from a brain-damaged blindworm, let alone the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy."
> Revenge of the Sith

"Obi-Wan Kenobi has endured the unenviable task of training the Jedi Order's most powerful and headstrong young Jedi, Anakin Skywalker."
> Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

"Clearly Anakin was as strong in the Force as any Jedi who had ever sat on the Council."
> Labyrinth of Evil

"What? How can you do this? This is outrageous! It's unfair! I'm more powerful than any of you. How can you be on the Council and not be a Master?"
"Take a seat, young Skywalker..."
...
Everything in his life had led to this point because Anakin Skywalker's destiny had been subverted and warped by well-meaning but blind Masters, sending him off on a tangent to do a flawed Palpatine's bidding instead of realizing his own full power.
I'm more powerful than any of you.
It was a boy's expression of anger, but it was true."
> Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines

"He is powerful. Potentially more powerful than even myself."
> Darth Sidious, Revenge of the Sith
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 14 d ago.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader There are some statements about Post-Mustafar Darth Vader that put Anakin on the same level as Yoda and Sidious.

"Powered by treachery, the Sith Master-apprentice relationship was always a dangerous game. Trust was encouraged even while being sabotaged; loyalty was demanded even while betrayal was prized; suspicion was nourished even while honesty was praised.
In some sense, it was survival of the fittest.
Fundamental to Vader's growth was the desire to overthrow his Master.
Had Vader killed Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he might have attempted to kill Sidious, as well. In fact, Sidious would have been surprised if Anakin hadn't made an attempt. Now, however, incapable of so much as breathing on his own, Vader could not rise to the challenge, and Sidious understood that he would need to do everything in his power to shake Vader out of his despair, and reawaken the incredible power within him.
Even at Sidious's own peril..."
> Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

"Nick Rostu knew darkness.
He had, after all, stood with the Jedi Master Mace Windu against Kar Vastor in the steaming jungles of Haruun Kal. Kar Vastor, leader of the Balawai resistance; Kar Vastor, with his arm-mounted vibroblade weapons and his almost supernatural strength. Kar Vastor, stronger in the Force than any of the Korunnai, stronger than any in the galaxy, perhaps, save for the Jedi. Kar Vastor, so submerged in the dark side that, even though Nick had been only a couple of meters away from him during that final battle, eventhough he could see the man as clearly as he could see Mace, or Iolu, the guard who'd sliced him from sternum to navel-still, looking back on it now, he realized he couldn't visualize the guerrilla leader's face. It was as if the Balawai commander had been shrouded in darkness, somehow, as if the dark side of the Force radiated a strange anti-light. Kar Vastor had been the essence, the personification, of primal power, jungle savagery, and bloodlust distilled into flesh. Nick had never seen anyone or anything to match him.
Until now.
Until he stood, unarmed, before Darth Vader.
As if being armed would make a difference, he thought. He could be tricked out with wrist rockets, a hold-out shooter, a pair of DL-44s, and a disruptor rifle, and he might just as well be carrying a pointed stick. Vastor had been animal ferocity and menace, barely contained. He'd thrummed with the power of the dark side. His arms, legs, torso, and shoulders had been layered with striated muscle; he looked like he could have lifted a pregnant grasser over his head. One-handed.
Vader was as tall as Vastor had been, but probably massed a good twenty kilos less. He wasn't physically impressive in the same way; no musculature was visible under the black armor.
It didn't matter. There was no doubt in Nick's mind that, were Kar Vastor somehow to be pitted against Darth Vader, the feral Balawai renegade wouldn't stand a chance.
The Force was powerful in Vader; even the dim wattage of Nick's connection could feel that. It was far more powerful than it had been in Kar Vastor. It had pulsed from Vastor in waves of fury, blasted like an open furnace. In Vader, it was-contained. Pent.
Waiting."
> Coruscant Nights I: Jedi Twilight (Kar Vastor was believed by Mace Windu to be on the same level as Yoda, and Post-Mustafar Vader is said to be far more powerful than Vastor)

Also Pre-Mustafar Vader is stated by George Lucas to be just as powerful as Sidious.

"From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor - he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."
> George Lucas
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Not sure how Vader would use ataru effectively and I've never heard him using form 6 or 7 either.

It's never been shown Dooku was on Yoda's level considering he made him fight for his life. Yoda was able to hold off Sidious's lightening which was far more powerful than Dooku's. Even near the end of ROTS Yoda says Obi-Wan's not strong enough to take Sidious. Obi-Wan was comparable to Anakin who was comparable to Dooku.

The only person I've heard who beat Yoda was Plo Koon but I've never seen proof of that.
First quote didn't help because he clearly wasn't unbeatable. 2nd made no sense because Obi-Wan would go on to beat him. The rest also contradict each other. Anakin was not ready to be a jedi master yet. If anything he was rushed into being a knight. You last quote proves that Vader wasn't as strong Sidious. Yoda was.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Vader has shown the ability to be acrobatic when he needs to be.



Ferus Olin also said Vader was faster than anyone he'd ever seen, and Ferus has seen Obi-Wan Kenobi, a master of Ataru.

"It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda."
> Last of the Jedi: Secret Weapon

I've also got the quotes for Vader not only being a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, but him being the greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy.

I've already provided numerous sources that say Dooku is on the same level as Yoda, and the Attack of the Clones film shows the two stalemating when they fight using the Force. Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith is NOT comparable to Anakin at all, Anakin is stated numerous times to surpass not only Obi-Wan, but everyone else on the Jedi Council. One of these statements even came from Mace Windu himself.

"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."
(Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith)

"Obi-Wan Kenobi has endured the unenviable task of training the Jedi Order's most powerful and headstrong young Jedi, Anakin Skywalker."
> Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

Also Anakin's power has been described as "unprecedented," putting him above all Jedi from previous eras. This includes Bastila Shan, who was stated to be on with as Obi-Wan and Dooku.

"This makes Anakin, in effect, a Jedi Master, a rank that Anakin, with his unprecedented power in the Force, feels has been long overdue."
> Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

And before you mention the Mustafar fight, Kenobi was at the disadvantage for that entire fight until he gained an amp that allowed him to keep pace with Vader.

"With Anakin's grip on his wrists bending his arms near to breaking, forcing both their lightsabers down in a slow but unstoppable arc, Obi-Wan let go. Of everything. His hopes. His fears. His obligation to the Jedi, his promise to Qui-Gon, his failure with Anakin. And their lightsabers.
Startled, Anakin instinctively shifted his Force grip, releasing one wrist to reach for his blade; in that instant Obi-Wan twisted free of his other hand and with the Force caught up his own blade, reversing it along his forearm so that his swift parry of Anakin's thundering overhand not only blocked the strike but directed both blades to slice through the wall against which he stood."

"The man he faced was everything Obi-Wan had devoted his life to destroying: Murderer. Traitor. Fallen Jedi. Lord of the Sith.
And here, and now, despite it all... Obi-Wan still loved him.
Yoda had said it, flat-out: Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must, but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best friend walked. Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment...
He let it go."
> Revenge of the Sith

Anakin was superior to Dooku. This is also stated numerous times, further supporting that Dooku, while inferior to Yoda, is still nearly on his level.

Mmm, yeah, Anakin kinda was unbeatable. Only time he lost was due to his own arrogance and when he fought an AMPED Obi-Wan.

Kenobi was amped and stated numerous times to be beneath Anakin in dueling skill, I have several more quotes on this exact thing.

They do not contradict each other at all. Anakin was not MENTALLY ready to be a master, he was more than ready in terms of POWER. And some of these quotes don't even refer to the Jedi Masters, such as Sidious' quote of Anakin potentially being stronger than himself and Sidious believing that reawakening Anakin's power would be perilous to him. Oh, and if you want the quote from Mace Windu about Kar Vastor being as strong as Yoda, I've got that as well. And the last quote says that Vader, prior to his injuries, was just as strong as Sidious.

"From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor - he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."

"From then on" refers to his injuries and reconstruction on Mustafar. That means prior to said injuries, Vader was as strong as Sidious, which is of course supported by the multitude of statements about Anakin being the strongest Jedi alive. Also, coincidentally, when Vader finally surpassed his previous peak (Anakin), he was also then stated to surpass Yoda.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 14 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Instead of saying you have quotes just show it.

Yoda matched Sidious in the force who was leaps and bounds ahead of Dooku unless you're saying Dooku was comparable to Sidious.
Not only is Obi-Wan comparable to Anakin, he's better. He was able beat a bloodlusted Anakin while holding back. He didn't receive an amp he just accepted his friend was too far gone.
Anakin wasn't the most powerful yet. He was getting there.

Dooku was comparable to Anakin, not beneath him. He lost in ROTS because of their lightsaber forms. He'd already been fighting evenly with Obi-Wan as well and was told to hold back.

Anakin was beatable. He'd lost before during the clone wars and lost to Obi-Wan holding back.

Anakin's padawan failed to qualify as a knight (I know it was out of his control but it's not a good sign). The council were always going to be harsher on him considering he was the chosen one. Being a master isn't about power.

Do you seriously believe Anakin was stronger than Sidious?
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable.
> Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

She felt as if she were fighting a droid, although a droid programmed to counter all her best stratagems. Ducking out from under a broad sweep of the crimson blade, she somersaulted to safety.
> Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

Darth Vader is the embodiment of all evil. Under the guidance of Emperor Palpatine-aka Darth Sidious- Lord Vader controls the Galactic Empire with an iron fist. He's an unparalleled lightsaber combatant and an even more capable Force wielder.
> Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II: Prima Official Game Guide

No one was a match for the lightsaber skills of the dark lord of the Sith.
> Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game: The Shadow Syndicate

Vader has the greatest combat skill of anyone else in the galaxy, which would include Yoda.

I've gone over this already. Dooku is NEARLY comparable to Yoda. This is reiterated numerous times by numerous different sources, it is fact. This is also supported by Post-Mustafar Darth Vader, who is stated by George Lucas to be comparable to Dooku, being capable of defeating Kar Vastor, who Mace Windu compared to Yoda.

"From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor - he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."
> George Lucas

"I could not answer; Vastor has power on the scale of Master Yoda, or young Anakin Skywalker. And I had no desire to debate with Depa on Jedi tradition, and the necessary distinction between dark and light."
> Shatterpoint

Obi-Wan is not comparable to Anakin, and he sure as hell isn't better. Literally everything, including the writers, says Anakin is better. And I provided the quotes that show Obi-Wan amped himself to fight Vader on Mustafar.

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."
> Revenge of the Sith

"Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived."
> The Making of Revenge of the Sith

"We won't try, Anakin. We will do. After all, they are only Senators. Most of them couldn't hide what they're thinking from a brain-damaged blindworm, let alone the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy."
> Revenge of the Sith

"Obi-Wan Kenobi has endured the unenviable task of training the Jedi Order's most powerful and headstrong young Jedi, Anakin Skywalker."
> Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

"Hayden in this film has gone up to a level nine. He's gone past Obi."
>


> "Obi-Wan has gone up one level from Episode I to Episode III, but it's a huge jump from one level to another. It's not just about a style of fighting—it's mental as well. Anakin has gone up probably four levels from Episode II to Episode III. So he's gone beyond Obi-Wan, but he hasn't gone beyond him mentally."
> Nick Gillard

> 'Obi-Wan taught Anakin and Anakin has gone past him,' he notes.
> The Making of Revenge of the Sith

> "Obi knows that Anakin is better than him, but because he taught him, he knows emotionally how he's going to behave."
> Nick Gillard

> The ease with which Kenobi had taken command of the situation was frightening. More frightening was the fact that of the two, Skywalker was reportedly the greater warrior.
> Revenge of the Sith

> He had been a superior fighter even when he had been Anakin Skywalker, and yet Obi-Wan had defeated him.
> Death Star

Anakin was tied with Yoda for the most powerful, as I have provided the quotes for already.

Anakin in the Clone Wars is vastly weaker than Anakin in Revenge of the Sith. And Kenobi needed an amp just to keep up with Vader (who was not at full power, and was emotionally compromised), and he only "won" via Vader being arrogant. Matter of fact, the stunt coordinator of RotS has said numerous times that Anakin > Obi-Wan in terms of both power and dueling, Obi-Wan is only MENTALLY superior.

"But Ahsoka eventually became disillusioned and left the Jedi Order, an act which Anakin regretted.
The Clone Wars continued, and Anakin became a hero and grew vastly in power."
> http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Someone that's only Knight level isn't going to be put on the Council. And Anakin is still explicitly stated more than once to be stronger than everyone on the Council, so...

When did I ever say that? I quoted Sidious, who said Anakin was potentially more powerful than him, and said that Anakin/Pre-Mustafar Vader was comparable to Sidious (which is consistent).
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 14 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda These quotes show how good Vader was but there really wasn't much competition at the time to compare it to. All the best had died or retired.

Saying he's nearly comparable is vague.
You've repeated some quotes which I've already seen.
So somehow Dooku is nearly comparable to Yoda but Obi-Wan (the guy who beats Anakin) isn't? You never proved he was amped. I told you he momentarily realised Anakin was gone. Anakin wasn't hindered in any way, Obi-Wan was.

Anakin was not on Yoda's level at all. Mace, Obi-Wan and maybe more were in between them. The quotes never explained how a blootlusted Anakin lost to Obi-Wan holding back. The reason is because Obi-Wan was better.
The Clone Wars takes place just before ROTS. Anakin's power doesn't just skyrocket before the battle of Corosant.

You answered yourself.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Yoda and Sidious were still alive at that point, therefore those would put Vader above both of them in dueling skill.

Not really. It means Dooku is weaker, but he can still hold his own extremely well against Yoda.

I gave the exact quotes that show Kenobi was amped. Him "letting go" is giving himself up to the Force, which allows him to fight at a higher capacity than normal. He did this earlier against Grievous.

Anakin is on Yoda's level, I have already provided everything that says so. You can't just claim he isn't with no reasoning. Mace himself stated Anakin is above him, I've provided numerous quotes that show Anakin is far superior to Obi-Wan. Anakin's power does skyrocket after Ahsoka leaves, which I've provided the evidence for already. You can't make these claims with no evidence while writing off the multitude of quotes I've given that show you're incorrect.

Yes, I never said Anakin was stronger. SIDIOUS said Anakin was POTENTIALLY stronger. I've said this whole time that Anakin is comparable to Yoda and Sidious, which I have proven through numerous sources.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Like I said all the others had died or retired.

It's still vague and doesn't really mean much.

That's not an amp that's just him not holding back anymore.

Actually I have shown evidence. Yoda says Obi-Wan (who's comparable to Anakin) couldn't take Sidious. If Anakin couldn't beat Obi-Wan while boosted then he's definatly not on Yoda's level. I've already shown those quotes don't make sense as a result.

Being potentially stronger doesn't help. Anakin was the chosen one so he had the potential to be stronger than everyone but he never got there.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Your point being? There's no evidence that Yoda lost any of his dueling skill during the Empire era, same with Sidious. Vader is also stated to be more skilled than ever during Return of the Jedi, which makes him superior to RotS Anakin, who was already on the same tier as Yoda and Sidious, as Nick Gillard has said numerous times.

It means Dooku is nearly as powerful as Yoda, which is supported by Anakin (Dooku's superior), being comparable to Yoda. It's pretty simple, in all honesty.

It is absolutely an amp, again, this was shown earlier in the novelization during the Grievous fight to be an amp. Also there is zero indication that Kenobi was suppressed when he was fighting Vader. The fact that Vader's assault on him was stated to be "unstoppable" shows that Kenobi was at a HEAVY disadvantage before he amped himself.

You haven't. You gave stuff that said Yoda was a better duelist than Dooku, which I don't really care about. But other than that, you haven't provided any quotes. Obi-Wan is not comparable to Anakin, as I've proven numerous times, and the people that made RotS reiterate. You just saying he is doesn't make it fact, especially when you've provided no evidence to show such a thing. You just saying the quotes don't make sense isn't a proper counter, quite frankly it just sounds like an excuse to not accept facts. Kenobi is only superior to Anakin in a mental sense, as was stated by Nick Gillard, and the novelization explained that was how Kenobi beat him. By mental superiority and taking advantage of Vader's arrogance, after amping himself just so Vader didn't casually pummel him (as he was doing beforehand).

The way Sidious worded it makes it pretty obvious he meant that, at that exact moment, it was possible Anakin was stronger. Which is supported by Anakin consistently being stated to be relative to Yoda, George Lucas himself saying Pre-Mustafar Vader = Sidious, Battle of Yavin Vader surpassing Yoda at the same time that he surpassed Anakin, Luke being stated in Shadows of the Empire to be the strongest Jedi of all time, and also being stated in Shadows of the Empire to be possibly stronger than Anakin.

A warrior needed to contend with equals. Obi-Wan was gone, and the other Jedi were all extinct, save one, who was the strongest of them all. His own son. He had told the Emperor that Luke Skywalker would join them or die. The real truth was only slightly different: Luke would join Darth Vader or die. It would be something to look forward to. That would be the duel of a lifetime. This wasn't even exercise.
> Shadows of the Empire

He would never go back to what he had been mentally. Weak, foolish, idealistic. Anakin had been much like Luke Skywalker was now. Mere...potential. Yes, the Force was strong in Luke, perhaps stronger than it had been in Anakin. But the boy needed to embrace the dark side, to learn where the real power was, to achieve his true promise. If he did not, the Emperor would destroy Luke. Vader did not want that.
> Shadows of the Empire



Oh, and this Luke, that was stated to be the most powerful Jedi of all time? Vader could've stomped him if he had truly wanted to.

"Well, children love power because children are the powerless. And so their fantasies all center on having power. And who's more powerful than Darth Vader, you know? And, some, you know, will be attracted to Luke Skywalker because he's the good guy. But ultimately, we all know that Darth Vader's more powerful than he is."
> George Lucas

She pointed a finger at Luke, and before Luke even recognized her evil intent, a ripple of Force slammed into him. White lights exploded behind his eyes, and the right side of his face felt as if it had been smashed by a hammer. His left arm and right leg crumpled under their unbearable weight, and he dropped to the ground on one knee, stunned. All the noise and blaster fire and screams of pain died away, became a distant roaring. Gethzerion pointed at him again, twitched her finger, and his eyes lost focus. He felt the hammer blow to his left temple, dropped to his side and rolled over to his back, gasping. Luke stared up at the sky, watching streams of rocks hurtling above him—some propelled by the Force, others hurled by rancors.

Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.

So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me.
> The Courtship of Princess Leia

Also Vader, as he was stated to be the second most powerful being in the galaxy, is stronger than Gethzerion (the person above stomping a Post-RotJ Luke).
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 13 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Point being he was no longer fighting or a part of anything. Yoda had faded into the background and Sidious stopped using his lightsabers. Nick Gillards quotes didn't line up with reality.

Anakin was comparable to Dooku not superior. Dooku was consistently able to fight off Obi-Wan and Anakin at the same time without even taking the fights seriously. Dooku fighting for his life from Yoda doesn't make him comparable. You can say nearly but then that doesn't really mean much. That can be said about so many characters.

Well clearly Anakin wasn't unstoppable because Obi-Wan blocked everything he had. And yes he was suppressed because in both the book and the movie you see Obi-Wan doesn't really go on the offensive. He pleads with him before, during and after the fight. His heart wasn't in it.

You should care because it carries more weight than all your quotes put together. You've yet to prove Obi-Wan isn't comparable to Anakin. Those quotes are contradicted by the movie itself. Last I checked Obi-Wan didn't beat Anakin mentally, he severed 3 of his limbs and left him to die. If you want to look at quotes, Anakin himself said that by AOTC Obi-Wan was already as powerful as Mace Windu.

Nothing obvious about it. Anakin was the chosen one and his powerful skills were well known but he wasn't stronger yet. Sidious even says to Yoda "Darth Vader WILL become more powerful than either of us".

Saying the force may have been stronger with Luke than the chosen one himself is questionable however the context is not in a fighting sense.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader I'm gonna be up front about this. If you can't bring any quotes or scans, don't bother replying. Because all you've done so far is just make claims, not back them up, and then say blatant evidence and statements from some of the highest authorities on this stuff is wrong with no proper reasoning.

Doesn't change anything. Neither Yoda nor Sidious lost their combat skill, Vader was still stated to be the greatest combatant. Therefore, Vader is a better combatant than them both. Nick Gillard's quotes line up perfectly well, actually. Especially since you've provided nothing that contradicts them. Btw Sidious did still use his lightsaber.


False statement, Anakin was superior, as is stated numerous times.

"Soon, I shall have a new apprentice. One far younger and more powerful."
> Revenge of the Sith

Sidious then turned his attention to Anakin Skywalker, knowing that young Skywalker was much stronger in the Force than Tyranus.
> The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Sidious is merely playing for time until he is ready to replace Tyranus with a new, more powerful apprentice, who will help him to achieve his ultimate aim: utter subjugation of the galaxy under Sith rule and the formation of a merciless new order — the Galactic Empire.
> Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross-Sections

And Post-Mustafar Darth Vader, who is weaker than Anakin, is still stated to be comparable or superior to Dooku.

Sidious bared his teeth, but only briefly. "Darth Tyranus knew what he risked, Lord Vader. If he had been stronger in the dark side, you would be dead, and he would be my right hand."
> Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

"From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor - he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."
> George Lucas

Dooku was not "fighting for his life" when the two were using Force abilities, as I have already proven. Dooku being nearly comparable to Yoda is far more clear than you're acting like. To put it into simple terms, if Yoda were a 10, Dooku would be a 9.

Obi-Wan's entire style is based on defense, him not going on the offensive does not mean he is suppressed. That's not how it works. By that logic, Darth Zannah was suppressed against Darth Bane since she's also a Soresu specialist. Obi-Wan's bones was breaking from each of Vader's attacks, his defenses were failing him until he amped himself.

"With Anakin's grip on his wrists bending his arms near to breaking, forcing both their lightsabers down in a slow but unstoppable arc"
> Revenge of the Sith

It does not. One source doesn't override many just because you personally want it to. I have proven Obi-Wan is weaker than Anakin, numerous times. Just because you want to deny facts doesn't mean the facts haven't been given. The movie is not the end-all-be-all, champ. The novelization gives extra context that you cannot give in the movie, and the guy THAT COORDINATED THE MOVIE says Anakin slaps Obi-Wan. End of story. And Mace considered AotC Anakin to be stronger than him, so... you have no point.

It's extremely obvious, honestly. And yes, Vader had not yet surpassed either of them. He was equal to them. Which is what I've been saying.

Anakin never reached his maximum potential as the Chosen One, so it is not questionable at all. Vader says Luke is possibly more powerful than Anakin, and at the same time Luke is stated to be the most powerful of the Jedi. That very clearly means surpassing Anakin means being the strongest Jedi, further supporting the multitude of evidence that says Anakin is relative to Yoda.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda I actually did use quotes in my last answer (more reliable ones than yours) if you read it properly. And everything I've said have been backed by by the movie, comics or books. You've yet to discredit any of it. Your blindly taking these quotes as the gospel when I've shown they're not to be fully trusted. Andy Serkis said that Snoke was more powerful than Sidious and Vader. Was he right? Daisy Ridley said Rey would beat Mace Windu. Was she right?

Yoda probably did because he was practically at death's door by that point and dies not long after. You can't prove Yoda still retained all that skill. I've already shown Nick's quotes didn't line up with reality. Anakin wasn't unbeatable and lost. Or do you believe Nick over ROTS itself?

Reality shows otherwise. Dooku constantly took him on as well as Obi-Wan. He only loses in ROTS. Vader becomes stronger than Anakin so for him to still be comparable to Dooku proves my point.

You never proved that, I was referring to their duel. It still doesn't really mean much. That's like saying Maul was nearly comparable to Sidious. Not much to go on.

His defensive stance wasn't the only reason I said. If you watch the movies or see the description in the books Obi-Wan clearly wasn't giving 100%.

It's not about me wanting it to it's the fact that the movies trump everything you have to say regardless of how you wanted it to go. I've debunked those claims of Anakin being stronger. Referring to how things actually played out isn't denying, it's accepting the truth. Time for you to do the same. If one guy quoted that Lando would beat Sidious does that mean it must be true? Can't have it both ways. Do you honestly believe it was Anakin that slapped Obi-Wan? You remember how that fight ended right?

An empty claim with nothing to back it up. If he couldn't beat Obi-Wan holding back he wasn't equal to Sidious or Yoda.

Luke shouldn't have had the same medichlorian count as Anakin and had inferior training. He's more powerful because as you're own quote says, he felt compassion. You're still back to square one
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader And you STILL didn't provide a single quote or scan.

You didn't give a single quote in your last comment. There's nothing to discredit because you've given no evidence. It's that simple. You haven't shown the quotes FROM GEORGE LUCAS HIMSELF and the guy that WROTE ALL THE LIGHTSABER FIGHTS aren't to be trusted, you just said they're wrong for... no real reason. Andy Serkis and Daisy Ridley are actors. Not the creator of the franchise and guy that coordinated all the duels in the movies. Nice false equivalence.

Do you have any actual evidence that Yoda lost dueling skill? Because if you don't, then you concede the point as there are less than zero reasons to say he got less skilled. You haven't shown that, you've just said things with no evidence. Nick was literally the one that made the fights in RotS, and the novelization agrees with him, as do several other sources. GG.

Reality shows that Anakin slaps Dooku, yes. Post-Mustafar Vader was weaker than Anakin, what are you on?

I absolutely have proven that Dooku is on Yoda's level in Force power. And Maul isn't nearly on Sidious' level, Maul got fodderized by Sidious and is stated numerous times to be far beneath him. False equivalence, again.

And if you read the novelization and pay attention to what the guy THAT WROTE THE FIGHT says, Vader was far superior and Kenobi needed an amp to keep up.

That's not a fact, mate. That is, again, you just wanting to be right despite only having a single source that is contradicted by numerous other ones. You have debunked nothing, you have either A. Stopped replying to that point or B. Just said it's wrong and given no reason. And for the third time, you give a false equivalence. Is there, I don't know, SEVEN different statements of Lando being able to beat Sidious? Because there's seven statements of Anakin being the most powerful Jedi. Obi-Was won, as has been said by the maker of the fights, and by the novelization, via taking advantage of Vader's arrogance and mentally outmatching him. Not by being the superior warrior. You keep ignoring that fact, for some reason.

Obi-Wan was amped and didn't outmatch him through fighting skill, and there is far more evidence putting Anakin on Yoda and Sidious' level than Kenobi's. GG.

Midichlorian count is irrelevant, that is not the only quote that says Luke is the strongest. Nice try though.

"A warrior needed to contend with equals. Obi-Wan was gone, and the other Jedi were all extinct, save one, who was the strongest of them all. His own son. He had told the Emperor that Luke Skywalker would join them or die. The real truth was only slightly different: Luke would join Darth Vader or die. It would be something to look forward to. That would be the duel of a lifetime. This wasn't even exercise."
> Shadows of the Empire

You don't know more than the people that made these movies, or the characters in the story, boo. Time to stop acting like you do.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda By this point you're just ignoring my evidence because it trumped everything you had. I quoted Anakin, Sidious and provided a scan earlier straight from the comic based off the movie. You've been caught lying now. Don't ruin your credibility further.

Literally quoted Sidious and referred to what Anakin said in AOTC. You're now just lying or didn't read. Like I've already said, the movies show otherwise. No false equivalence, just using you own logic against you.

I asked you first. It's a safe assumption that Yoda lost his skills because that's what happens when your dying. Pretty obvious mate. Unless you can prove otherwise it's just another empty claim by you. Anakin lost to Obi-Wan, ergo he wasn't unbeatable. Should have been obvious.

Their previous fights prove otherwise. You're glossing over the context of ROTS too. You honestly think Vader
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Oh boy, here he goes with the ad hominem again. You gave a Sidious quote that has nothing to do with anything, as I have said this entire time that Vader is only COMPARABLE to Yoda and Sidious, not superior. You have not once quoted Anakin. You claimed he made a quote, you never provided said quote. Plus I countered that and explained why it doesn't matter. And the scan you gave has nothing to do with anything relevant, it refers to Dooku's dueling skill and not his Force power; which is the only thing I give a s h i t about. You have failed to counter any of the quotes or scans I've given with any actual evidence, you've just made claims and expected me to believe them.

I explained how it's a false equivalence, nice try. Unless you think the word of two actors is equivalent to GEORGE LUCAS HIMSELF. Movies aren't the end all be all, the quotes I have provided give further context to what happens in the movies, next.

You don't just assume Yoda lost skill when LITERALLY NOTHING implies he did. That's not how this works. You need to provide an actual quote or scans that say Yoda lost skill, otherwise you're just talking out of your ass. Vader lost in a way that is irrelevant to fighting skill, next.

I'm literally GIVING the context of RotS. Anakin and Pre-Mustafar Vader are consistently said to be on the same level as Yoda and Sidious, and George Lucas himself agrees with that assessment. Anakin/Vader is consistently stated to surpass Obi-Wan in every way, and the man that coordinated the fights in RotS agrees with that assessment. Their word is not contradicted, therefore it is valid.

You. Do. Not. Know. More. Than. They. Do.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 12 d ago.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 5 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader I'm not part of this debate but
2:50 Mark.

@Tyrannus: you can't just dismiss everything that don't go your way.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 5 mo 12 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader @Lord: If Vader is only comparable to Yoda then why did you vote him over Yoda?
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 12 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Oh, I was saying that Pre-Mustafar Vader is only comparable to Yoda. Battle of Yavin - Battle of Endor Vader surpassed him by quite a large margin.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 5 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader @Lord: if ANH Vader is above Yoda then why did he struggle with old Ben?

@Tyrannus: are you gonna reply?
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda @Tracer Stop trying to play the victim again. Unlike you I've never used ad hominem. Try and keep this debate focused on the actual topic rather than deviating like you usually do when struggling.

My quote was relevant because Sidious himself said Vader WILL become more powerful. He hadn't done so yet like you'd hoped. If I'm honest most of you're quotes have contributed nothing. I said Anakin described Obi-Wan as powerful as Mace Windu. Caught you again on a lie. Just because I didn't use quotation marks. Again you're treating quotes like the gospel when reality contradicts that. My scan has been the most relevant thing here because you claimed Dooku was almost comparable (a useless thing to say) when my scan showed him fighting for his life. Actually you were focused on Vader duelling ability at one point so obviously you did care about duelling. More lies or ignorance.

You explained nothing I debunked. So by you're logic it doesn't matter what happened in the movie, if someone says the opposite we should believe them over the movies itself? See how that sounds.

Literally just said how he's really old at this point and at death's door. Again you ignore what I say because you know it debunks everything you said. Interestingly you couldn't provide proof despite me asking first and me providing my own. Glad to see you conceded.

You keep ignoring the movies itself which will always trump everything you say no matter how hard to try. Anakin lost to Obi-Wan. Deal with it.

@Dark I'd doing the opposite mate. By commenting you have joined the debate. You've made no sense. Am I supposed to be Anakin?
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda He struggled because he was never above Yoda
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader @Tyrannus Calling you out isn't "playing victim," boo boo. Only one struggling is you since you haven't properly contested anything or provided scans/quotes that actually matter.

*facepalm* I just said... literally just said... that Pre-Mustafar Vader WAS NOT superior to Sidious. Did you actually read what I said? Here, I'll even quote it so you can see:

"as I have said this entire time that Vader is only COMPARABLE to Yoda and Sidious, not superior."

You think I'm struggling and you can't even read what I say correctly? Yikes. Again, you never ACTUALLY PROVIDED ANAKIN'S QUOTE. You just claimed he said something, if you do not give the exact quote from him, I have no reason to believe you. And again, I explained why that doesn't mean jack s h i t. Your scan does not show that, that is a blatant f u c k i n lie.

All it says is that Dooku "realizes he is not the most powerful Jedi after all." The *actual* person that was stated to be fighting for their life was OBI-WAN when he fought Dooku.

"Using the force - Obi-Wan Kenobi flips into battle against the evil Sith Darth Tyranus. The courageous and disciplined Jedi Knight *fights for his life* as the master swordsman Darth Tyranus prepares to strike the final blow."
> Obi-Wan Kenobi with Force-Flipping Attack!

So your one piece of "evidence" isn't even real, and the numerous quotes I've provided have yet to be contested. Dooku is nigh-Yoda level, GG. The quotes ARE reality, just because YOU don't like them doesn't make them wrong. Like Dark said, you can't just dismiss everything that doesn't go your way. I said I don't give a s h i t about DOOKU's dueling skill. Context is a thing. Understand it.

I explained everything, chief. And nice, I love how you dodged my question on if you think two actors have equivalent word to George Lucas. And as I've already told you: the movie is not the end all be all. The novelization, comics, books, etc. all provide context that literally cannot be given in a two hour movie. And even if you treated the movie as entirety separate, it would be telling one thing against numerous other sources that say something else. One thing does not override numerous ones. That's not how things work.

That does not prove he lost skill. Find something actually from the series that says he got weaker and try again. I conceded nothing, because your entire point is an assumption. You cannot prove Yoda got weaker, because HE DIDN'T. Literally nothing says he got weaker.

One source doesn't override several that contradict it. That's not how CONSISTENCY works. Anakin is far stronger than Obi-Wan in dueling skill and Force power, Kenobi only won via amping himself and predicting his movements, and if you have a problem with that, why don't you go talk to Nick Gillard about it.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader @Dark Vader didn't struggle with Obi-Wan. Vader is always shown as superior, both in dueling skill and Force ability. Plus Vader is consistently stated to have surpassed Anakin (who already surpassed Kenobi) while Kenobi is consistently stated to be weaker than he was in RotS. When ANH Kenobi refers to "improving," he refers to how he learned to become one with the Force.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Except you never did, you just cry victim. I've debunked everything you've said while you've just ignored it.

I never said that you did. You're looking for ways to get offended that isn't there. I actually did say what Anakin said and you acknowledged it before. You're backtracking now because it hurts you're case but it's too late. My scan was about Yoda being superior to Dooku. Not sure how you made that link. It honestly astounds me how you're getting this so wrong. Obi-Wan wasn't even in that scan lol.

Quoted from the movies before as well but obviously you've ignored them because you have no counter. Already contested most of you're useless quotes with the movies itself. Don't confuse me debunking those quotes as dismissing. You might want to watch the movies.

You've explained nothing. In a nutshell all I've seen is you bring quotes, I tell you how the movies show what actually happen, you whine about being wrong and ignore it. George Lucas does have higher authority. And guess who wrote and directed the movies son? They still trump anything you can think of. You're welcome to try though.

Still no proof Yoda didn't lose any skill. I'm still right then.

That "one source" being the movie itself which you will never trump. If you have a problem with it complain to George Lucas.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Anakin wasn't able to beat Obi-Wan.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Hunny, you've debunked literally nothing. You've just made claims without evidence from the source, and the few things you have provided were contested.

Lmao, yes you DID. You aren't even remembering your own statements correctly. You just said in your LAST COMMENT, and I quote; "My quote was relevant because Sidious himself said Vader WILL become more powerful. He hadn't done so yet like you'd hoped." You did not provide the quote. You claimed Anakin said a thing, you never:
A. Proved he said it.
B. Given his EXACT wording.
C. Provided the source that it came from.
Until you do those things, I have no reason to believe your claims. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would've thought that was obvious, but you do you. And even then I STILL explained why it doesn't matter because Mace Windu himself said twice that Anakin surpassed him. And once again, you duck. You claimed the scan says Dooku was fighting for his life. It DOESN'T say that. Ergo, you told a blatant lie. And wow, I can't believe you misinterpreted what I said that badly. I was telling you that OBI-WAN was the one fighting for his life, not Dooku, and then provided the quote that proves that. I did not once say Obi-Wan was in the scan you provided.

So all you're saying right now is; "I'm going to go with the single source that's heavily contradicted and inconsistent, even when the people that make them say otherwise." Because that's what you're doing.

The quotes are the context to the movie, bud. Try again. George Lucas said Post-Mustafar Vader, who he also said is weaker than Anakin, was comparable to Dooku. You said Dooku was comparable to Obi-Wan, so you just conceded Anakin > Obi-Wan. GG. Or are you gonna claim Lucas is wrong now, even though his word is consistent with the source media? I've already proven the movies aren't the end all be all, especially when they're heavily contradicted. You're taking inconsistency above consistency, this is what leads people to arguments like Spider-Man > Hulk.

Literally not how it works. The burden of proof is on YOU to provide in-series evidence that he did lose skill. Until you do that, you are just making a baseless assumption. Especially when it's consistently shown that Force wielders get STRONGER with age, Obi-Wan is one of the few times where the opposite occurred.

Except I have. Numerous times now. You've just shown throughout that you have no proper response and fall back on "this one source is right cause I said so," just to keep the facade that you're correct. So GG.

Unless you've got some quotes or scans, don't even bother replying. Because at this point, you're just repeating heavily contradicted and debunked nonsense.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 10 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Getting some mixed messages there. Anyway, I have debunked everything you've said with the greatest source of all. The movies. You're unable to trump them.

I used that quote to debunk you're claim that he was better. You gave my own quote then claimed I never gave a quote? You contradict yourself in the same line. You can be in denial if you want. At least we both know I was right.
Never ducked mate. You didn't asked. Dooku was unable to get past Yoda's defence and his attacks were weakening. He forced Yoda to save Obi-Wan and Anakin to get away. Just because you lie doesn't mean I do lol. Like I said before I'm not sure why you brought Obi-Wan into this for some reason. No link.

You're saying the movies are inconsistent and contradicting?

My quotes came from the movies. Most of yours didn't. Still unable to top the movies themselves. Try again.
Don't get excited yet. Never said Anakin>Obi-Wan. Being comparable to Dooku doesn't mean that so again there is no link. Just wishful thinking. George Lucas made Obi-Wan beat Anakin. If you agree with George you agree Obi-Wan>Anakin. GG.

I asked you for proof. Instead of showing any you just asked me instead. I delivered and asked you again to which you failed to do so again. Therefore I'm still right. GG.
You contradicted yourself there but OK.

You've complained to George Lucas before? Guessing you got no response. I use the main source that all of this is based upon, the movies.

I used both before. If you ignored it that's you're problem not mine. Like I said you won't find anything to surpass the movies but you're welcome to try. If you want to stop then stop but I'd rather show you the light.
Clint_Barton
Clint_Barton 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
40 months member
2.3K
not voted I read the debate, and the winner is clear.
LordTracer successfully used the scans and novels to prove his claims, and he brought more proof than Tyrannus did.
Tyrannus ignored all of the quotes and scans instead of countering them.
Tyrannus committed ad nauseam multiple times.
@LordTracer won, because he filled his burden, and countered his opponent's arguments succesfully, without committing logical fallacies.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Noice. Lucifer said I won too, so GG.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Lol so you need validation from others to approve of you. Also that was @Clint not @Lucifer.
I debunked everything by referencing the movies themselves. Something @Tracer has yet to contest. Never used ad nauseam once. I asked for proof on Yoda for example and he never provided.
Conclusion, I won.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 10 d ago.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader I said *also* Lucifer.

Two people judged the debate, they both said you lose. That's GG.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 10 d ago.
Breaker
Breaker 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
40 months member
4.3K
Yoda Two people who is your friends *Friends*
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda That says Thanos not Lucifer and again it looks like you just need validation from other people. Until you can provide the proof I asked for you still lose.
But if you want to look at numbers more people voted for Yoda. You have 2 L's.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader I met him when his username is Lucifer. Therefore, I call him Lucifer. And you do realize debates need a judge right? Otherwise, they go on forever. I didn't even ask Clint to judge, tbh, he still says I won.

So that's GG, no matter how you look at it.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 10 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Lol there doesn't need to be a judge unless you're struggling without it. @Breaker backs me so that still disables your point.

You've still been unable to counter pretty much everything I've said which is how I won again. GG
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader He didn't even say you won lmao, don't put words in his mouth. You were judged to lose, and that's the end of it. If you need to tell yourself that you won to help you sleep at night, then you do you.
Breaker
Breaker 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
40 months member
4.3K
Yoda @Tyrannus I've read and see all of this last night ,. congratulations For a nice clean slapping
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda @Tracer Yeah you were saying.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Literally changes nothing, also do not ping me. For anything.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda @Tracer Yes because I'd always beaten you.
Erm no I still will if I need to.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader You literally haven't lmao. In our X-23 v. Logan debate, Nemian judged and said I won. And in this one, both Lucifer and Clint said I won. So that's GG.

But hey, if you need to tell yourself that you won to help you sleep at night, you do you.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda You were unable to counter me on either so yes I've still won regardless. But if you want to look at what others say, more people have Yoda winning (another thing you ignore). Even @Breaker knew I clapped.

You can tell yourself that all you want but reality is I have always beaten you. Just the way things are.
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Ah, yes because you're definitely an impartial judge on this. You have one person saying you won throughout both debates. I have three. And vote count means nothing lmao, there were only five people that voted AFTER this debate started (and the majority of them voted Vader). So your point doesn't even work. Now hop off my d i c k, would ya? I'm sure it's tempting, but please control your carnal nature.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, bud.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 9 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Lol it's not about having judges, if you're unable to uncontested my points then yeah I won. You have 2 not 3. And actually I have 66 who support me saying Yoda wins. Not even sure why you're still salty about that other debate because I forgot about it.
Vote count may not mean a lot to you because you tend to be in the minority. Perhaps it's a sign. Make of that what you will.
Bro I don't like you that way. Stop dreaming. I know you have a thing for me but I don't feel the same.
Last edited: 2 y 5 mo 8 d ago.
Clint_Barton
Clint_Barton 2 y 5 mo 5 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
40 months member
2.3K
not voted Why are you appealing to majority? That's a logical fallacy, y'know.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 5 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda I'm not. I voted Yoda because he better not because he's in the majority. However the majority tends to be right.
EmptyHand
EmptyHand 2 y 8 mo 9 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
44 months member
17.9K
Yoda Yoda stomps
Galactus
Galactus 2 y 11 mo 5 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
8+ year member
1.2M
Yoda This is the battle we all want to see...
show 3 replies
BlotskyA
BlotskyA 2 y 11 mo 5 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
38 months member
53.5K
not voted how about Nolanverse Batman vs MCU Thor that's something we want to see
Galactus
Galactus 2 y 11 mo 5 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
8+ year member
1.2M
BlotskyA
BlotskyA 2 y 9 mo 28 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
38 months member
53.5K
not voted I Meant on the Big Screen like in a Movie
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 4 mo 6 h 2 m
Yoda vs Darth Vader
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Vader If Luke was able to blitz Vader, if Ahsoka was pressing a speed advantage, if numerous padawans from Star Wars purge were able to subvert Vader's guard, then I wonder what Yoda could do to him given that Yoda has beat Dooku twice (who stated to be the fastest duelist of the time), avoid three masters in a sparing match _Maul: Lockdown, and stalemate Palpatine who blitzed three high council members.
show 1 reply
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 5 mo 10 d
Yoda vs Darth Vader
64 months member
34.5K
Darth Vader Pretty much all of the Star Wars YouTubers have been debunked.

Voting feed

lucifermorningstar876
Yoda wins!
Unicron
Yoda wins!
Mahan86
Darth Vader wins!
Sn
Yoda wins!
Fii
Yoda wins!
ca
Yoda wins!
Kikido
Darth Vader wins!
2099
Darth Vader wins!
__Graysonzilla__
Yoda wins!
Probst_Wyatt
Darth Vader wins!
bi
Darth Vader wins!
phamhungbao
Voted neutral.
HJ
Yoda wins!
Aleazlllll
Darth Vader wins!
masterking2
Yoda wins!
A_Human
Darth Vader wins!
ultron
Darth Vader wins!
Rune_KingThor
Darth Vader wins!
Shadow_Rider
Yoda wins!
RavenCraftAG
Voted neutral.
A1B2
Yoda wins!
pa
Darth Vader wins!
PR
Yoda wins!
Xml
Darth Vader wins!
RatnikNaSjeveru2005
Yoda wins!
ICVonDoom
Darth Vader wins!
Da
Yoda wins!
Regulus
Darth Vader wins!
wade
Yoda wins!
Da
Yoda wins!
Poe
Yoda wins!
Erix01
Yoda wins!
dcm
Voted neutral.
Ja
Yoda wins!
Re
Yoda wins!
SuperSomebody
Yoda wins!
Martin
Yoda wins!
Xavis
Yoda wins!
aqib2109
Darth Vader wins!
ubslucky
Yoda wins!
Mandos9452
Yoda wins!
LadyGaladriel1212
Yoda wins!
RandomName123
Yoda wins!
vonKonigsberg
Darth Vader wins!
odinsbeard69
Yoda wins!
co
Yoda wins!
MaseTheFace
Yoda wins!
ArdaX000991
Yoda wins!
TashPuddle
Yoda wins!
Chijb
Yoda wins!
voidstone
Yoda wins!
Some4hinGood
Yoda wins!
Superguy251
Yoda wins!
Userfriendly
Yoda wins!
py
Yoda wins!
ARC08
Darth Vader wins!
xrpl320
Yoda wins!
TH0R
Yoda wins!
M3taSlav3
Yoda wins!
aI
Darth Vader wins!
TheGoatAnakin
Yoda wins!
Jarindeed
Yoda wins!
hb
Darth Vader wins!
Savage
Yoda wins!
Dr
Yoda wins!
RajinKabir
Yoda wins!
MrJaeger07
Yoda wins!
Ezio
Yoda wins!
Enternity10
Yoda wins!
Th
Yoda wins!
Taurus
Yoda wins!
Albus_Dumbledore_Stark
Yoda wins!
Gogeta2
Yoda wins!
Prion
Yoda wins!
Loxblin
Darth Vader wins!
Ralkero
Yoda wins!
Chawie
Yoda wins!
quasar1967
Yoda wins!
MoNsTeR
Yoda wins!
NightwingNOE12
Yoda wins!
Creator
Yoda wins!
Michealdem17
Yoda wins!
Ca
Darth Vader wins!
ThorMathews
Yoda wins!
Su
Yoda wins!
Dusk_Pikachu
Yoda wins!
Dilorenzom
Yoda wins!
Breaker
Yoda wins!
Wic23
Darth Vader wins!
Alien_X
Yoda wins!
DevyEZ
Darth Vader wins!
DarthNihilus003
Darth Vader wins!
Gr
Darth Vader wins!
LordTracer
Darth Vader wins!
Dark_Wing
Darth Vader wins!
dg
Darth Vader wins!
Heroclix21
Yoda wins!
Pedrof
Yoda wins!
Biscuit
Yoda wins!
Colloquialism
Darth Vader wins!