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YodavsDarth Sidious

Created by luckufu

62 wins (47%)
12 (9.1%)
58 wins (43.9%)
YodaYodaStar Wars
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Darth SidiousSheev PalpatineStar Wars
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Official Superhero Database stats. | Class: 0

Comments

Sn
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
48 months member
46
Neutral They already fought, they tied. Yoda had to leave because the guard arrived.
de
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
18 months member
68
Darth Sidious Darth sidious wins
br
brandendm 2 mo 5 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
2 months member
66
Darth Sidious Sidious would win with difficulty.
ca
captainthor985 2 mo 28 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
43 months member
4.7K
Darth Sidious palpatine already defeated yoda, yoda had to run away after because he knew himself he couldn’t defeat palpatine (remain in exile i must, failed i have) plus yoda tried to stop palpatines lightning like he did with dookus and got overwhelmed and also got sent flying
show 1 reply
Sn
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
48 months member
46
Neutral They tied, Yoda left because the guards arrived.
RatnikNaSjeveru2005
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
20 months member
10.8K
Yoda Yoda won he only fell down which is why the fight ended
dcm
dcm 1 y 6 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
13 months member
8.6K
Darth Sidious Sidious already won...
Chijb
Chijb 1 y 4 mo 1 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
19 months member
6.6K
Yoda Lol yoda curbstomps.
show 4 replies
LadyGaladriel1212
LadyGaladriel1212 1 y 3 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
15 months member
10.1K
Darth Sidious How? Yoda did not beat sidious by much you know? And in the rots Yoda actually lost
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 1 y 3 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda @LadyGaladriel1212 Yoda didn't lose in ROTS
Chijb
Chijb 1 y 3 mo 25 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
19 months member
6.6K
Yoda Lol
LadyGaladriel1212
LadyGaladriel1212 1 y 3 mo 24 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
15 months member
10.1K
Darth Sidious "failed I have exile I must"
py
pyromaniacal 1 y 6 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
18 months member
150
Darth Sidious why is this even a battle? they legit fought in the movie and Yoda lost
show 1 reply
hb
hbn 1 y 5 mo 28 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
19 months member
5K
Darth Sidious yoda didn't lose that fight, palp escaped. On even ground, yoda would have won that, but palp was not near his most powerful in ROS. In his prime he beats yoda.
Pedrof
Pedrof 1 y 8 mo 5 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
34.7K
Darth Sidious I'm going to change my vote again, because in comics Sidious is more powerful.
Comics Sidious > Comics Yoda
Yoda from movies > Sidious from movies
show 6 replies
Chijb
Chijb 1 y 3 mo 25 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
19 months member
6.6K
Yoda No
Pedrof
Pedrof 1 y 3 mo 25 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
34.7K
Darth Sidious @Chijb Tell me what do you know about SW comics?
Chijb
Chijb 1 y 3 mo 25 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
19 months member
6.6K
Yoda I don’t but I’m guessing yoda cuz he has more votes. Also this is movie Darth Sidious vs comic yoda look at sidious’s picture.
Chijb
Chijb 1 y 3 mo 25 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
19 months member
6.6K
Yoda I don’t but I’m guessing yoda cuz he has more votes. Also this is movie Darth Sidious vs comic yoda look at sidious’s picture.
Pedrof
Pedrof 1 y 3 mo 25 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
34.7K
Darth Sidious It's not about picture, all the main SW characters are canon versions that includes comics.
SuperSomebody
SuperSomebody 1 y 2 mo 13 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
17 months member
11.7K
Darth Sidious Someone with brains
remy94
remy94 2 y 6 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
73 months member
10.6K
Yoda "Into exile I must go failed I have"
show 1 reply
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 6 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Because he failed to kill Sidious. He almost did so if Sidious stopped running
Heroclix21
Heroclix21 2 y 6 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
30 months member
2.4K
Yoda Yoda is a living ceiling fan with a sword. Yoda will definitely win more times than not. I'd say Yoda 7 out of 10.
show 2 replies
Pedrof
Pedrof 2 y 6 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
34.7K
Darth Sidious This is not Sidious from the movies but is Darth Sidious from a comic called '' Dark Empire ''. This Darth Sidious has the power of all Jedi's that were born before 11 BBY including Yoda and he also manages to distort and create worm tubes in space-time.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 6 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Doesn't matter. Yoda got this
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 6 mo 21 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious He = Yoda
"He'd never had it. He had lost before he started. He had lost before he was born." _RotS novel
show 4 replies
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 6 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Why do you keep posting new replies in this?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 6 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious That was 18 days ago!
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 6 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda I don't mean now I meant it 18 days ago
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 6 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious I don't remember. You should have asked me a little more than half a month ago. I just wanted to put that quote right there.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 7 mo 19 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious I still hold true to the argument that I posted over 8 months ago.
show 1 reply
DarthNihilus003
DarthNihilus003 2 y 6 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
4.6K
Darth Sidious Right...
Toreno
Toreno 2 y 7 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
31 months member
308
Darth Sidious Canon: Palpatine is stronger than any dark sider Yoda has faced (ie. Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress):
Never had Yoda faced one so strong in the dark side.
Canon: Darth Sidious proves too strong for Yoda to defeat, overwhelming him with the power of the dark side:
Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's Light and Dark Sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat.
Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
Though Yoda is a tough combatant, the Emperor uses his Sith powers to release lightning bolts and hurl floating platforms at his foe. Ultimately the battle proves too much for Yoda, who barely escapes and is whisked away to safety by Senator Bail Organa.
The Jedi Master and the Sith Lord dueled in the Senate chamber, but Sidious was too strong for Yoda to defeat.
A fierce duel commenced. Yoda and Darth Sidious each used his side of the Force to try to defeat the other. But the Sith Lord's powers were too strong.
Yoda is eventually outmatched by Sidious.
Looking at the fight-
Canon: Sidious casually hurls several Senate pods at Yoda whilst simultaneously levitating the pod he stands on and several others
Canon: The Emperor incapacitates Yoda with Lightning
Canon: Palpatine knocks Yoda's lightsaber out of his grip with Lightning
Canon: Sidious fires Lightning with such force that Yoda considers walking against it to be akin to walking against hurricane winds
Canon: Yoda reaches the limits of his strength trying to bend back Palpatine's Lightning. Sidious manages to leap away and blast Yoda down onto the Senate floor:

The end came with astonishing suddenness. The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength. The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough only to whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow—

Half a second too slow.

The shadow unleashed its lightning while the creature was still in the air, and the little green freak took its full power. The shock blasted him backward to crash against the podium, and he fell.

He fell a long way.
I don't care what are you saying,Sidious win is comfirmed. It doesn't matter what you do to your enemy in the fight
disarm him,gain dominace etc. It matters who will win the battle in the end. As you can see Yoda was forced
to run,go to exile and wait for new hope.
show 6 replies
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 7 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Sidious couldn't defeat the greatest jedi. Sidious barely survived Yoda's attack.
You ignored how Sidious kept trying to leave and how Yoda dominated the lightsaber duel eventually disarming him. Sidious had to maintain the high ground forcing Yoda to climb to him. Even then Yoda only fell because he stood on the edge while Sidious was inside.
Also your opinion isn't canon.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 7 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda
Who looks more scared
EmptyHand
EmptyHand 2 y 7 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
45 months member
17.9K
Darth Sidious That's from the movie
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 7 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda I know. That's what I meant
Toreno
Toreno 2 y 7 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
31 months member
308
Darth Sidious Sidious incapacitated Yoda with Lightning in the same beginning,and the green hermit wasn't expecting
that this kind of power will ragdoll him against the wall. Also Sidious disarmed Yoda with a piece of lightning and casually hurls several Senate pods at him whilst simultaneously levitating the pod he stands on and several others,but Yoda struggled with one Senate POD, it really shows that he isn't as powerful as The Emperor.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 7 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Yoda also threw him into the wall. Yoda had previously disarmed Sidious of his lightsaber and even without it Yoda held off the lightening. He caught all senate pods and threw back while spinning them against gravity which was much harder to do.
Your just cherry picking the parts that make Sidious look good when he struggled the whole time. That gif sums it up
arianadatio
arianadatio 2 y 8 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
35 months member
238
Darth Sidious sidious is stronger than yoda with the force but with a lighsaber yoda is better
show 3 replies
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 8 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda He's not. With the force they'r quite close because Yoda matched everything Sidious had
xerodeep
xerodeep 2 y 8 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
43 months member
260K
Yoda I completely agree with @Tyrannus on that one. I might even say that Sidious was surprised at how powerful Yoda was and was even starting to lose until he resorted to more desperate measure and then when given a moment called in his lackies. Yoda, knowing he at least wouldn't defeat Sidious before his reinforcements arrived, decided to slip away. But Yoda at least matched Sidious in his power over the force.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 8 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda @xerodeep got it spot on
DarthNihilus003
DarthNihilus003 2 y 8 mo 24 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
4.6K
Darth Sidious Sidious did try to hold back but he won.
show 4 replies
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 8 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Sidious ran for his life and still barely pulled a stalemate.
xerodeep
xerodeep 2 y 8 mo 17 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
43 months member
260K
Yoda Again, completely agree with @Tyrannus. See above.
DarthNihilus003
DarthNihilus003 2 y 6 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
4.6K
Darth Sidious If Sidious barely pulled a stalemate, then why was he laughing early on.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 6 mo 25 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda He's insane. Yoda kept a serious face even when winning.
AkhilPDX
AkhilPDX 2 y 9 mo 12 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
68 months member
28.6K
Darth Sidious This is a very close fight, but I might have to give the edge to Darth Sidious.
show 1 reply
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 9 mo 12 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Yoda disarmed Sidious causing him to keep running and keep his distance to stay alive. Even then he barely achieved a stalemate.
Ku
Kutas 3 y 1 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
41 months member
162
Darth Sidious 19 votes on Yoda hahaha,you can't even accept the fact that Yoda lost the Fight with Sidious and he was forced to run,because he realised that he have no chance so he never faced Emperor again,and he moved to exile and wait for someone to help defeat the empire.
show 1 reply
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 11 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Yoda beat Sidious in the lightsaber dual and had Sidious desperately trying to keep his distance to even stand a chance against Yoda. Even with gravity on his side Sidious still wasn't able to match Yoda in the force. Yoda left because the clones were coming and was exhausted while Sidious was left clinging onto the ledge for dear life.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 3 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious Legend has it that @LordTracer and @Tyrannus will debate until the universe is destroyed. Oh, wait legends isn't canon.
show 1 reply
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 11 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda lol. My debate with Tracer was like the fight with Doomsday and Superman or Hulk and Sentry. It went on for so long but like the Hulk I edged the win.
Last edited: 2 y 2 mo 6 d ago.
HolyJoe
HolyJoe 3 y 3 mo 29 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
62 months member
105K
Darth Sidious I've seen the movie, but I don't really know who wins. Care to explain, Tracer?
show 12 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 3 mo 29 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious When Sidious returned in Dark Empire, he was explicitly stated to be the strongest Force wielder to ever live (this would obviously exclude cosmic beings such as The Bedlam Spirits and The Ones), and it took the spirits of every single dead Jedi (so Yoda, Mace Windu, Revan, The Hero of Tython and so many more) just to prevent Sidious' spirit from escaping Chaos, which is basically the Star Wars version of Hell.
HolyJoe
HolyJoe 3 y 3 mo 29 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
62 months member
105K
Darth Sidious So, what's his best feat?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 3 mo 29 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious Him losing to an inexperienced self proclaimed Jedi and his sister.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 3 mo 29 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Probably the fact that it took every dead Jedi to overpower his spirit.
HolyJoe
HolyJoe 3 y 3 mo 28 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
62 months member
105K
Darth Sidious Okay, and what's Yoda's best feat?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 3 mo 28 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious Blasting thousands of battle droids away with waves of telekinesis (seemingly with no effort), using battle meditation to turn the tides of entire battles, stalemating Palpatine ie the greatest Sith Lord ever, being considered the most powerful Jedi of the time, transcending the physical realm as a Force Ghost, defeating Dooku twice (once in AotC and and again in Yoda Dark Rendezvous), being able to sense the emotions of thousands of deaths during Order 66 _rots, been considered to be the greatest lightsaber duelist ever, living for over 900 years, turning a teenaged farm brat into the most powerful and overrated Jedi of the time who would get underly obliterated by Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker or any higher tier Jedi/Sith
Last edited: 3 y 3 mo 28 d ago.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 3 mo 28 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Stalemating Revenge of the Sith Sidious and being considered the strongest Jedi alive until the Yuuzhan Vong War, where Luke Skywalker surpassed him.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 3 mo 28 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious How did you like my list @LordTracer?
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 11 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda I'd already debunked Tracer's claim of Sidous being that powerful. Long story short Sidious was too much of a glass canon
LordTracer
LordTracer 2 y 7 mo 27 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious That doesn't even make sense lmao, being a glass cannon (which literally every mortal Force User is if they aren't protecting themselves) doesn't mean you have less power. Sidious matched every Jedi who ever lived at the same time, and that's the tea.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 2 y 7 mo 19 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious Yet he has some good anti feats aswell
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 2 mo 6 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda I was talking about how Sidious's heavy usage of the dark side was killing himself. He never actually fought every jedi so that's a lie
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 4 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious I am going to end this once and for all!

RotS novel: "Yoda disarmed Palpatine of his lightsaber forcing him to use the senate pods to escape" implying that Yoda was a better fighter. "They were matched in terms of Force power until the lighting that Yoda was catching exploded sending them both back" implying that they're somewhat comparable in Force power, but Yoda never once used offense of powers. So I give a slight edge to Yoda in that regard. Had that fight of taken place in an open field where Yoda Could use the acrobatic footwork of form 4, then he would've won, but this is Dark Empire Palpatine who is much stronger than RotS Palpatine. RotS Yoda > RotS Palpatine

After RotS Yoda would go to Degobah and go on a spiritual journey strengthening his spiritual connection to the Force while not really upping his combative output nor defense, meanwhile Palpatine would just continue on his quest to learn more about the Dark Side growing stronger with it in the presses. RotJ Palpatine was just more active than RotJ Yoda, whatever Yoda tried Palpatine would simply be him to the punch. RotJ Palpatine > RotJ Yoda

Dark Empire has Palpatine at his peak of power. His dueling skills and power in the Force are now much higher to a point where he was said to be the most powerful Force user of that era and it took every deceased Jedi (implying Yoda was there) just to keep him in the Nether Realm of The Force. He would destroy Yoda in a confrontation shredding through his force wall and outlasting his very limited endurance, cutting through his guard, and let's just say allow him to become one with The Force. DE Palpatine >>> Yoda.
Last edited: 2 y 10 mo 16 d ago.
show 92 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious You forgot that it was explicitly stated that Sidious was the strongest Force user in DE and it took every deceased Jedi just to keep his spirit from escaping Chaos, but good rundown otherwise.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 4 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious "Strongest Dark Side user"

Abeloth: am I a joke to you
Last edited: 3 y 4 mo 4 d ago.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Well, of course the cosmic beings would be excluded there. Also Abeloth isn't the Dark Side, that's The Son. Abeloth is the Chaos that's the opposite of The Father's Balance.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 4 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious Abeloth did use the Dark Side a LOT, Luke was able to break free from her death grasp when he opened himself up to the Light Side implying that Abeloth struggled against Light Side users that were comparable in power to her.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Luke isn't of comparable power to her though, he needed severe help just for an avatar. And that makes sense, there was an abundance of the Light Side during the NJO era, the Dark Side would cause Chaos, hence why Abeloth would use it.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious He used oneness in order to defeat her, as far as I know oneness makes the user an extension of the Light Side of The Force. Didn't the Light Side hinder Abeloth to any sort of extent, hence why Luke was able to kill her avatar? I agree with almost everything else that you said.
Last edited: 3 y 4 mo 3 d ago.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Let's continue replying here so it's easier.

As I've said many times now I have given evidence why Sidious is weaker in the links I gave you. What is funny is that the answers you want are in the links but you ignore them and give a repeated excuse why you won't read them or ignore the question. If Han Solo can kill DE Sidious I think Yoda can. We both know Yoda's stronger at this point though don't we.

Anakin had advantages overs Obi-Wan and still lost which means in a fair fight Obi-Wan would beat Anakin far more easily.

Lol now that's a way to waste your time for something so pointless. It put a smile on my face though. If you want I can send you a link for the definitions for canon and EU.

Those 8 sources mean nothing to George Lucas so, yeah.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious None of those links are official.

Han only killed Palpatine because Palpatine was focused on entering Anakin's body.

No it wouldn't

Disney doesn't mean anything to George Lucas either
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Wow, really, again with the anti-feats. I already debunked your use of those. And you're STILL ignoring the fact that Sidious was stated stronger than Yoda and that Yoda needed the help of every single Jedi to keep Sidious' spirit down. You still have absolutely no rebuttal to that, and if you do, personally type it out and stop dodging.

The hell do you mean a fair fight, Vader v. Kenobi on Mustafar was entirely fair. Vader is simply a superior Force wielder, which was the entire original point of this, and you conceded that fact.

So you concede the fact that the EU takes precedence here, on this site? I don't care about anywhere else at this moment, the fact is that here, on this site that you are using, the EU takes precedence. You cannot get past that fact, being condescending isn't going to help you here, so I'd suggest you concede to the fact that here, EU > Disney.

Ignoring the fact that Lucas' statements have been retconned numerous times, both by the EU and Disney, once again, very nice. Thinking that one source is greater than eight, very nice.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious @Lordtracer in a vs match this is a clone of Palpatine and if that clone dies Palpatine loses the fight.

If it was a fair fight then Obi-Wan wouldn't of been able to get high ground https://youtu.be/v0wVRG38IYs

Lucas' statements >>> Disney canon
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious The hell are you on, nobody said otherwise. I'm just stating the fact that Sidious' spirit is superior to Yoda and Sidious' clone bodies are stronger than even that.

Do you know what a retcon is? Disney can (and has) retcon several things from Lucas, and they've done so quite a few times already.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Dark_Wing one of them is from the official star wars website and the rest use offical star wars books, comics and movie producers in them.
If he was so powerful why didn't he just kill everyone excpet Anakin Solo then?
Watch ROTS.
Disney hasn't said anything to the contrary.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda LordTracer Absolutely with the anti-feats because you want me to believe DE Sidious is so good when he can killed in such a humiliating way. Lol check the links for why Sidious isn't stronger. Before you reply back saying "but your still ignoring-" no check the links, the answers are there. It wasn't really much effort to contain Sidious and he lost his last chance at a body so he was less than useless at that point.

Obi-Wan was emotionally conflicted while Anakin was boosted by the dark side and was fully motivated to kill Obi-Wan and still lost. I think your confusing something though. Anakin definitely had a higher medichlorian count so had the potential to surpass Obi-Wan but Obi-Wan's intense training meant he matched Anakin in that fight.

You've been the only one who's been condescending. I've been trying to keep this respectful because I thought this was just a friendly discussion. I don't believe EU takes precedence here, I believe this website uses the characters at there most strongest which tends to be EU.

When has Lucas been retconned? Did you say by Disney? I thought EU takes precedence here? Where's the consistency?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Are you unable to summarize the points on your own, so you have to get other people's statements to do it for you? Unless you can contend the point yourself, I'd suggest you concede it because you aren't going to get anywhere if you can't give your own arguments. Anti-feats cannot be used, otherwise you'd have Thor being bullet level, or Hulk being weaker than a bunch of gorillas, or Yoda having to struggle to lift the weight of an X-Wing.

Even though Vader was explicitly portrayed as superior earlier in the movie, the fight was very clearly PIS.

And you'd be wrong about that. The EU takes precedence. That's how it's works, that's how it's always worked.

By Primus... did you not notice when in a prior comment I said BOTH the EU and Disney have retconned Lucas' statements before, or did you just ignore that part?
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 4 mo 3 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
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Yoda Wait what. No one summarised anything for me, it's just evidence. Evidence helps decide who's right which is probably why you don't like them. You can keep trying to avoid it as long as you want but your only helping my point. If you were so confident you were right you look but you won't because Yoda wins. Yoda never struggled and he was maybe a year away from death.

You can deny it all you want, the evidence shows Obi-Wan wins.

Given that you couldn't show evidence that EU takes priority over canon here it's still wrong. I know EU stats are used here if the character is stronger. Doesn't prove EU always takes priority though. That goes against it's very definition.

No I saw that but you conveniently ignored my reply when I asked for evidence that this was the case.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious I've summarized all the the evidence I have, I never once just gave you a link and said to go there. Can you not perform the same simple task? And considering the fact that Yoda didn't immediately and easily lift it, I can use that as an anti-feat via your own faulty logic.

That wasn't even the original debate, the debate was the cold hard fact that Vader is more powerful than Kenobi, or did you forget that?

What is wrong with you, I literally gave the fact that every character is based on their EU depiction. You don't have a refute against that, and you never have. And it does prove the EU takes priority, if it didn't, the characters would be edited based on their depiction in the Disney continuity.

I literally did. The eight sources I have (which is still a greater amount than your one) come from both the EU and Disney continuities. Would you like me to break down how that's the case so you can understand it?
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious What do Thor and Hulk have to do with this debate?

The only evident that I see for Obi-Wan winning against Anakin is plot convenience.

I've given you proof that the EU takes priority over canon.

Lucas said "Luke is the strongest Jedi" Daisy Riddly says "Rey is the strongest Jedi" however I could name 50 characters that would decimate Luke and Rey at the same time.
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Darth Sidious I was giving examples of why using anti-feats is utterly nonsensical, and those suited that purpose very well.
Tyrannus
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Yoda "Can you not perform the same simple task". Now that funny from the person who can't click a link. Like I said Yoda was about to die. At least he didn't die like fool and get shot in the back.

So why did he lose despite all the advantages?

How can every character be based on EU if people like Rey and Kylo Ren didn't exist in EU? You've been caught out. The original point was that you kept calling Force Ghosts Spirits when they mean 2 very different things because Sith can't become Force ghosts. Or did you forget?

Like I've already said none of them had a higher authority than Lucas. You can break them down if you want, none of them will overrule Lucas though.
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Darth Sidious None of those links are official sources

You want to know how Obi-Wan beat Anakin? https://youtu.be/B7LAAtKhuYQ. https://youtu.be/xjV8H8ye8p4. https://youtu.be/tgn8Ro-2j00.

Characters who were in the EU Luke Mara Jade, Revan, Starkiller, Jaina Solo, etc are based off their EU appearances, while characters like Rey, Ahsoka, Ezra, Kylo Ren are based off their Disney canon appearance and characters that appear in both timelines like Anakin, Luke, Han, Yoda, etc or a composite of their canon and legends appearances.

George Lucas doesn't even read the EU
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious And you still refuse to stop hiding behind other people's answers. Summarize the points, make it your own response, don't just use other people's stuff to do it for you.

I have explained this numerous times, PIS. Do you understand what PIS is?

Obviously I mean every character that is not exclusively Disney, at least try not to act inept. And once again, DARTH MARR IS A FORCE GHOST, WHICH IS WHERE THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION CAME FROM.

And you're again ignoring the fact that Lucas gets his statements retconned, both by Disney and the EU. I'm not sure if you're aware, but the author's word tends to at some point get contradicted by something else when the franchise is as old and long running as Star Wars. Oh yeah, and your entire argument is invalid by the fact that the script refers to Revenge of the Sith only, not Dark Empire where Sidious is stated and shown to have surpassed Yoda, something you have not once properly refuted.
Tyrannus
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Yoda Dark_Wing All my links have quote from official statements. The link you sent was just an opinion video which actually helped my point. When I sent my links I made sure that they all had proof, not opinions
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious *opinions based off of facts

Which link do you want me to check out first?
Tyrannus
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Yoda Lol your acting link I've sent you empty links. The evidence it there. It would take less time looking at the links than reading my replies. You keep saying I ignore DE even though I acknowledge it every time yet when I show you evidence you won't comment on it. I'm not going to waste my time typing something so long so that you can ignore that too. Your either too scared to look at the links or you can and you've realised your wrong. We've already sort of agreed at this point though that Yoda wins.

The PIS argument is so pathetic. Anakin lost because Obi-wan was better. PIS could also be said to be the reason why Yoda didn't mop the floor with Sidious in ROTS.

I know Darth Marr no longer counting as a force ghost is where it started, I was the one who had to remind you.

You keep saying Lucas was retconned but don't give evidence. No statements by anyone official, nothing. Therefore it's wrong. So you admit Yoda was the stronger opponent in ROTS? If you do then (forget Anakin and EU) that should bring this discussion to an end because that was the initial dispute.
Tyrannus
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Yoda Is it just me or are the comments spiting apart into 3 different sections
Tyrannus
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Yoda *Splitting apart
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious The Force of all of us commenting is so strong that split the replies into three categories. How do we all agree that Yoda somewhat wins?
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Make. Your. Own. Argument. Stop hiding behind other people's. If you want it to be taken seriously, say it yourself.

Pathetic my ass, PIS is the only reason Kenobi won. If PIS was off, Vader would have utterly obliterated him, and the feats earlier in the movie support that.

And now we're right back where we started with the fact that the EU takes precedence on this site. Congratulations, you started the argument over from the beginning. Good job.

I LITERALLY DID. EIGHT STATEMENTS, several of which coming from the guidebooks, novelizations and THE PRODUCER OF THE MOVIES, all of those are official. And no, the discussion is not over, because you refuse to accept the fact that Dark Empire Sidious surpassed Yoda.
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Yoda Dark_Wing I'm cool with that.
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Yoda I'm not hiding the links. I sent them to you. We've already though that Yoda wins so it's fine.

Claiming PIS is so weak. That logic can be used for pretty much any fight that doesn't go the way you want. Why did the council ask Obi-Wan not Anakin to fight Grievous? I know you have a problem with evidence but it is what it is. If Obi-Wan was clear minded and Anakin wasn't boosted, Obi-Wan would destroy without even trying.

I had to bring you back because you'd forgotten. Why is that a problem?

None of those 8 statements retconned Lucas, Lucas retconned them. Go through them all if you want and I'll tell you if any overrule Lucas. You want me to accept what was said in DE but won't look at evidence I've sent. You either have all the evidence or none of it.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious I did not say you were hiding the links, I said you were hiding BEHIND them. Again, use comprehension. Make your own argument.

You may think it's weak, it doesn't change the fact that PIS is a thing, and it happens all the time. And if things like PIS and outliers weren't taken into account, powerscaling would be all over the place. And clearly, you don't understand how PIS works as your example is not plot-driven in the slightest.

I remember exactly what the original point was, the problem is that you cannot accept the fact that the EU is what comes first here.

That's not how retcons work, something that came PRIOR cannot retcon something that came LATER. Lucas' statement literally cannot retcon the others, it is completely impossible. And by your own (faulty) logic, you have zero evidence because you refuse to accept that fact that Sidious surpassed Yoda.
Tyrannus
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Yoda I'm not hiding behind them either. Clicking a link shouldn't be any harder than reading I would have thought. Those links are what persuaded me that Yoda wins, it looks like they've persuaded you too so I don't mind.

PIS is a thing and in this case it wasn't. Obi-Wan is shown to be a great jedi many times so beating Anakin shouldn't be a surprise.

I don't accept EU coming first because you can't give evidence that it does and it goes against it's very definition. If you show me an official description of this website specifically using EU over canon then sure.

By that logic Snoke is the strongest character because that's the latest statement by Andy Serkis. I know your going to say "but he's just an actor, he has little authority-" your right, and no one has a higher authority than Lucas. Your contradicting yourself by saying I ignore what you said (even though I've never) but you ignore the evidence I sent you. You don't have a leg to stand on.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Clearly you are because you refuse to make it your own argument. Typically, people here like to formulate their own argument and don't just throw a link at somebody like; "Yep, there's my argument that somebody else made."

That is again faulty logic. Plo Koon is shown to be a great Jedi, does that mean he beats Vader on Mustafar? Shaak Ti is a great Jedi, does she beat Vader on Mustafar now? Your logic is still faulty and still ignores the fact that Anakin is portrayed as superior to Kenobi earlier in the same movie.

Oh. My. Primus. I already gave you the reasoning, every single character that is not Disney exclusive is edited based on the EU. How is it so difficult for you to understand such a simple fact? I've given the evidence that it does come first, YOU have not provided ANY evidence to the contrary. Prove that on this site, Disney comes first even though the characters are not edited based on the Disney canon, or concede the point.

Except I haven't ignored it actually, I just want you to make your own argument so you might actually be taken seriously. And yes, you have ignored what I said because you CONTINUOUSLY ignore the fact that Sidious surpassed Yoda, and always gloss over that fact to talk about something else. And your Andy Serkis example is faulty because HE IS NOT A WRITER, PRODUCER OR DIRECTOR. If you had a statement from one of them, you'd actually have a point. But you don't, because the actors don't know s**t unless they actually do their research. So again, the eight statements that came from the producer of Revenge of the Sith, writers of the official Star Wars databooks, writers of the official novelizations are all people who's word is actually relevant, and all of it retconned Lucas' single statement in the SCRIPT, which was changed numerous times by the time the final movie came out, another fact that you've been ignoring.
Tyrannus
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Yoda I've made my argument and that includes the links. You don't listen to me and you ignore the links which means you've read them and accepted your wrong or you don't want to be proven wrong. Loads of people send links. Dark_Wing has done it and so do others. Not sure why you take them as insults though. Get with the times.

Neither of those jedi are shown to be great like Obi-Wan was. Who was asked to fight Grievous again?

Lol who's primus? That looked so weird. I've already caught you out when you said every single character on this website uses EU so I don't really trust what your knowledge anymore. I'll quote from the website since your afraid of links;
"As most by now know, Star Wars "Canon" is the fictional material that is considered a part of and consistent with the main universe of Star Wars. The foundation for this "Canon" universe, are the six movies. From there, other works, like TV shows, books and comics, have become "canon" to the "Canon" universe.
There are other TV shows, books, comics, and other material, that is considered "non-Canon", not a part of, the main, "Canon" universe. These works of fiction have been dubbed "Legends". Legends consists of the Expanded Universe content that has been rendered non-Canon by Disney after their acquisition of Lucasfilms".

So you admit you've looked at them. We've already agreed that Yoda wins, we're talking about other things now. I do reply about DE. I know you struggle to remember things so I'll remind you, I said Sidious also got really weak in DE too. He couldn't maintain a single body and he ended up getting shot in the back by Han Solo of all people. What a way to go. I already preemptively answered the point about Andy Serkis and you still went on a rant about him. Read everything before replying. Lucas > producer, Lucas > writer of databook, Lucas > writers of novelisation. So far none of them do. Do you have anything better? It wasn't changed because it was kept in the book and the script was shown the public with that.
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Darth Sidious I never took them as insults, what are you on? And using Dark_Wing as an example just helps my point that you get taken more seriously if you actually give the point yourself instead of just throwing someone else's argument out.

Plo Koon was on his own mission when the Grievous discussion was going on, nice try though. And greatness still does not correlate to power.

That statement has nothing to do with THIS SITE, try again. Where's the proof that Disney comes first ON THIS SITE?

You are still using anti-feats, which have been debunked twice now. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Yoda couldn't keep Sidious' spirit down alone, something you have not once touched on. Do you understand what a retcon is? Because with how you're acting, I don't think you do. And you AGAIN dodged the fact that the script is not the end all be all, and that the script was changed numerous times by the time the final movie came out. You keep ignoring the things that poke holes in your already flimsy argument.
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Yoda Dark_Wing hasn't been helping me at all. He said he's neutral. You act like you speak for everyone on this website when your quite unpopular.

Mace suggested Obi-Wan because he was the master of form III. The perfect defence against Grievous and later Anakin.

I knew if I quoted the evidence instead of sending a link you'd still deny it. You proved me right again.

You never debunked that anti-feat once but I've debunked yours. Like I said the dead jedi weren't exactly doing anything so it wasn't a problem and Sidious blew his last chance at getting a body. The supposed most powerful force user humiliated like he was. You can't retcon someone with a higher authority than you. By your logic if you could then Andy Serkis was right when he said Snoke is the most powerful. Make your mind up. The script for the movie is as star wars as star wars gets and the point I'm referring to was the final print. Your looking for faults that don't exist
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious I did not once say he was helping you, no idea where you got that from. I'm not speaking for everyone, I'm speaking from experience. And experience has shown that people get ridiculed or are not taken seriously when they don't formulate their own argument.

So again, greatness had nothing to do with it, your point is again faulty.

Again ON THE SITE. Do you have any evidence ON THIS SITE that relates to how we do things ON THIS SITE? You act as if we have to do things the same way everyone else does.

I debunked your anti-feats every single time. The dead Jedi not doing anything has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't change the fact that Yoda alone could not overpower Sidious' spirit. You're taking completely irrelevant things and trying to throw them into the powerscaling. And yes, as a matter of fact, you can retcon someone with higher authority than you. For example, Stan Lee once said Galactus was the strongest Marvel character. Feats, scaling and statements from other writers completely retcon that. Once again, Andy Serkis is an insignificant actor, he is not a writer, producer or anyone who actually has the authority to make claims like that. And I read the RotS script, numerous things within it were changed in the final movie, your point is still faulty.
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious That's because you don't have any claims worth my helping. When I send links it's usually to a comic panel or interview that backs my argument. I never acted like I spoke for everyone here and the only reason I'm unpopular is because I'm the only user that knows that Luke Skywalker isn't beating Mace, Palpatine, Anakin, and he is most certainly not beating Yoda, another reason why I'm unpopular is because I'm one of the few users that questions high tier debaters and the only way those high tier debaters know how to deal with that is by blindly hating everything I say.

Anakin is THE master of form 5 and form 5 > form 3.

Just copy and paste some of those claims you agree with rather than sending us links.
Tyrannus
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Yoda You said I'd be taken more seriously if I didn't use Dark_Wing in my argument implying he's helping me. Your right though that "experience has shown that people get ridiculed or are not taken seriously when they don't formulate their own argument". That's probably why you don't get taken seriously.

Wow I gave you evidence and you once again ignored it and used the old "your point is again faulty". I notice you use that when I've caught you out and you don't have a good answer.

I'm assuming EU and canon don't have different definitions here right? You couldn't give me proof and have been caught lying.

You never debunked anything because when I correct you on what you said you just ignore it or call it "faulty" again. DE never said anything about the jedi struggling to contain Sidious. They didn't have lives to live to it was no problems. Plus that example was after Sidious failed spectacularly. Doesn't help you. While Stan Lee was technically wrong there he probably said that because Galactus is seen as the most famous "strong character". Lee doesn't have nearly as much control over Marvel as Lucas did though. If an actor has less authority than producers then the writer, director and creator has more authority over everyone you mentioned.
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious You would be taking infinitely more seriously if you didn't use me and your arguments.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Actually, what I said was that using Dark_Wing as an example helps my point, I did not say you were using him in your argument. So again, no idea where you got that from. And again, don't try to speak on things you don't know about, the general consensus here is that I am one of the top tier debaters here, and you know one of the reasons for that is probably the fact that I make all my own arguments, I don't just throw YouTube videos or Quora answers at people.

He says while trying to argue that greatness = power. Prove that being greater than someone means you're more powerful than them, because I can name several examples, both in and out of Star Wars of that not being the case.

You must be blind, as I have numerous times given the fact that all non-Disney exclusive characters are edited based on the EU. I'll even give an example of how that's the case so you'll understand it. Anakin Skywalker was given the ability of matter manipulation due to being able to create holocrons. In the EU, and the EU only, one has to make precise alternations on the subatomic level to do such a thing. Can you find evidence of that being the case in Disney canon? If you can't, then you concede the fact that it's an EU exclusive thing, and the fact that Anakin has the power is more proof towards the fact that the characters are based on their EU counterparts, something you have not once given proper contention to.

Oh really, DE never said anything about the Jedi struggling with Sidious' spirit? Then how come that was explicitly stated to be the case in Dark Empire? I'll even quote it for you; "His power was also such that even after death, it required every single deceased Jedi Knight to keep Sidious from escaping Chaos and wreaking havoc on the Galaxy." This helps me in every way, because no matter what you say, it cannot contest the fact that Yoda alone was not enough to defeat Sidious in the end, and it required the spirits of every single dead Jedi Knight, including ones of comparable power to Yoda such as Revan and The Hero of Tython, all for Sidious alone. You're not about to warp what Stan Lee said to fit your views, he said Galactus was the strongest, and that's that. His word was retconned, and Stan Lee was the end all be all of Marvel. So again, the creator can have his word retconned, whether you like it or not.
Tyrannus
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Yoda Now that's funny. A good debater shouldn't have to call themselves that, they should let it speak for itself. Given that you've stated false information, get overly passionate, resort to insults, doesn't know what canon and EU mean, calling things "faulty" when your losing and ignoring evidence when given to you doesn't make you a good debater at all. Sending links isn't a new phenomenon.

Anakin couldn't win because Obi-Wan was better. Simple enough for you?

You called me blind even though I said this website uses characters at their strongest points which includes EU. Doesn't mean that EU takes precedence. Who's being condescending now? And you thought you were a good debater lol.

Nothing was really lost by holding him back. The dead jedi weren't doing anything. It's funny how you missed out the part where it said Anakin Solo was his last hope at getting a body though. Yoda was still able to talk to Luke later on as a force ghost so it wasn't that bad. "he said Galactus was the strongest, and that's that". OK, and Obi-Wan beat Anakin and that's that. Or are you going to try and warp that? Like I said Lee didn't have the same authority that Lucas did with star wars. Check your facts.
Tyrannus
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Yoda Dark_Wing I don't know who your talking to. Put the name before your reply so I know
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Pay *clap* attention *clap* please. I did not personally call myself such, I brought reference to the fact that OTHERS have referred to me as such, correcting your incorrect (and irrelevant) claim that I am unpopular here. I've given no false information, I've backed up every claim that I've made with actual official evidence (unlike you), you've just assumed I'm getting "overly passionate" (with no evidence to support that either), I haven't once actually insulted you, I know exactly what EU and canon are, you just don't understand that EU comes first on this site, you ignore evidence all the damn time. Sending links may not be a new thing, it doesn't mean it's respectable. And it's certainly not respectable when you're just giving somebody else's argument and not defending your own claim.

Feats disagree.

You. Do. Not. Understand. How. Things. Work. I already explained that characters are NOT used at their strongest, the EU takes precedence because every character that isn't Disney exclusive is edited based on their EU counterpart. Why? Because the EU is far more extensive and is complete (at least it will be until Issue #108 comes out). And considering the fact that you didn't provide evidence to support the characters not being edited based on the EU, I assume you concede the point.

Okay, at getting a body, that has nothing to do with power. You bring up all this stuff that has nothing to do with power and act like it does, do you even understand what powerscaling is, because I sincerely doubt that you do. Things like greatness, what the characters are doing and things like that have nothing to do with how strong they are. Feats, scaling and statements are what matters, and nothing else. And it's funny that you try to use that when the only reason I brought up Lee saying Galactus was the strongest was to show THAT HE WAS WRONG. Again, creator's word can be retconned, which I have continued to give evidence for and you have not given evidence towards the contrary. And you're still not acknowledging that the movie has several changes from even the final script, which destroys your entire argument that the script is the end all be all.
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Yoda Given that many people disagree with you and you tend to be in the minority I stand by my statement. You said all characters used here use EU stats, I've given evidence every time, you sound so triggered every time you reply, you called me blind, no evidence has been given proving EU takes priority (like I've said characters are used at their strongest which includes EU but doesn't mean EU takes priority) and I answer your evidence every time, You just don't like the answer. You do know if I started using your logic I would just ignore your DE statements like you ignore my evidence. I don't because I look at both sides before making a decision because that's what a good debater does. So you do find links disrespectful. If you looked at them you'd see they're not someone else arguing for Yoda, they're using official evidence and explaining it to viewers who didn't have time or didn't understand.

The only feat that matters shows Obi-Wan the victor.

If characters are not used at their strongest then DE must not count then. I did give you evidence when I gave you the quote. To put it simply canon is the new explanation while EU is the old which no longer counts. To bring it back to the original point (which you conveniently like to avoid) given that the new canon explanation says only light side users can become force ghosts, Sidious couldn't.

It is relevant because Sidious is so weak in DE. You can't conveniently ignore the bad when going over the good. He became as weak as he was strong. Like I've said Lee wasn't in the same position and Lucas. I have given evidence with Lucas and the part I'm referring to was the final part of the script. Read carefully before replying.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Yes, because being in the minority instantly means your unpopular. Because that's how the world works, sure. Where's your evidence that all characters are considered to be at their absolute strongest? Because you haven't shown that, while again, I've given the evidence to support every character being based on the EU (and considering the fact that I personally know who edited every one of them, I know that to be a fact) and I even have an example of how that's the case. You haven't shown anything that contends with that fact. And once again, you're simply giving out somebody else's argument instead of making your own, as people are typically supposed to do here.

Okay, so by your logic, whoever wins the fight is the only important thing. So even if there's outward forces, other conditions, PIS, all that matters is who wins the fight, and they're instantly stronger because they won. Then I guess Sidious is stronger because he won the RotS fight, as Yoda fled at the end.

*facepalm* And once again, the definitions you are taking FROM OUTWARD SOURCES do not apply here. The EU comes first and foremost, I have given evidence and examples of this that are here on the site, you have not done the same. So again, Darth Marr became a Force ghost.

Sidious is weak in DE, huh? So the fact that he was stated to be the strongest Force wielder to ever live means nothing? The fact that every single dead Jedi had to team up to defeat him means nothing? You honestly just do not understand powerscaling, do you? Again, I read the final script. The movie changes several things from it. Your argument is invalidated by the fact that the script is not the end all be all.
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Yoda Democracy. You just gave me evidence when you said Anakin had matter manipulation. A power he didn't have in canon. This website uses all of it. You haven't really given evidence, in fact your hurt your case more than you've helped yourself. Many people have sent me links and I've sent them links in situations where it's better to look than to read a reply. It's just you who takes offence to them.

Given that the odds were against him and he still won I can confidently say Obi-Wan would win. Officially Yoda stalemated despite all the disadvantages. He won the lightsaber duel but couldn't continue the force battle because he ran out of time.

You don't like it when I call you out on your inconsistency do you? They're not "outward sources" they're the official definition. If you like I can send you the link? I caught you lying when you brought your "evidence" so your credibility doesn't count for much now. Sith can't become force ghosts which is why (despite claiming Sidious mastered everything) couldn't.

I'm not doubting his offensive abilities, I'm doubting his defensive abilities which were so weak he couldn't stay alive for long. If he ever fought Yoda, all Yoda would have to do is prolong the fight until he keels over. They didn't change the script. It's still there. Like I've said nothing beats the script for the movie.
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Darth Sidious So are minority races are immediately unpopular because they're minorities? Because you seem to think that minority = unpopular. Anakin having matter manipulation on his profile very much supports the fact that his profile is based on the EU. You have not been on this site very long, how are you telling me how things go here? And because of you not being here long, you're unaware of the fact that people get ridiculed for just giving YouTube videos as "evidence."

Yoda had zero disadvantages, first of all, second of all he didn't run out of time, he and Sidious were both flung back, and then Yoda ran away to go into exile.

You haven't called out any inconsistencies because there are none. They are outward sources because they are not here on this site. I haven't once lied, and you have no evidence supporting that I have done so. Sith can become Force ghosts, Darth Marr did so, and since you're bringing that back, it is factually stated that Sidious mastered every single Force ability.

Then do you accept the fact that DE Sidious has superior attack potency to Yoda? If you do, then the debate is over (even though your idea of how the fight would go is faulty in several ways, I won't go into that). And yes, they did change the script. Several lines in the final script were changed in the final movie, and several actions in the script were changed in the final movie. I could even give examples of changes, if you need them.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 4 mo 2 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
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Yoda Don't act clueless you know what I meant. What's minority races got to do with democracy? It's not exclusively EU. I don't need to be here long to know what canon and EU means. No one's ridiculed me for giving a youtube video which talks about official evidence. Dark_Wing sent me a video that didn't have any evidence in it. Instead of ignoring it I actually looked at it then replied back.

Order 66 caused a huge disturbance in the force which threw Yoda off before the fight. During the fight after realising he didn't stand a chance, Sidious kept trying to keep his distance from Yoda until his shock troopers came. He tired Yoda out with the help of gravity. Of course Yoda went into exile, where else could he go? Even if he killed Sidious he couldn't stay.

You are inconsistent. I try and remind you every time. I understand you have poor memory though. Do canon and EU have different definitions here? You did lie when you said all characters here use EU. I have to keep reminding you because I know you'll deny it later. Given that you can't prove EU overrides canon here, sith can't become force ghosts. If Sidious mastered every ability why didn't he become a force ghosts then? Or use tutaminus when Han Solo shot him?

Offensively, sure. I have no doubt Yoda would block everything Sidious threw at him though like he did in ROTS. Debate isn't over yet mate. It is if you admit that Yoda was the stronger opponent in ROTS. My idea of the fight is based on facts. Hard to believe isn't it. The part of the script I'm referring to wasn't changed like I've said. You keep looking for a way out.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious You're the one who said being in the minority makes you unpopular, so I guess all minority races are unpopular now. Literally nobody said it was exclusively EU, the fact is that EU comes before Disney does. Again, you have not been here long and you've debated literally nobody except Dark_Wing and I, you can't use that to say people don't get ridiculed for that (because they very much do). You should be perfectly capable of forming your own argument from the evidence you have instead of essentially just telling somebody else to do it for you. Cause that's basically what you're doing.

Gravity is not a detrimental thing to Force wielders, not a disadvantage. Being kept at a distance is not a disadvantage to Force wielders, especially when one of the most notable Force abilities - the Force push - is long-range. The shock troopers are absolutely not a disadvantage either. And if Yoda could kill Sidious, he would be perfectly capable of destroying the clone army.

I gave evidence of that, what is wrong with you. Do you need more examples of characters having EU-exclusive abilities, proving even further that EU overrides Disney here? Once again, Darth Marr is a Force ghost, end of story. Sidious became a Force spirit because, if you paid attention to Dark Empire, you would understand that Sidious' goal is immortality IN THE PHYSICAL PLANE. Sith care about the here and now, they cannot impose their will on the galaxy as a non-corporeal ghost that cannot affect the physical plane.

So you conceded that DE Sidious is more powerful than Yoda. The entire debate was DE Sidious v. RotS Yoda because that's what this fight is. RotS Yoda v. RotS Sidious is an infinitesimal and essentially irrelevant part because the Sidious in this battle is from Dark Empire. Whether the specific part you are referring to was changed or not is irrelevant, the absolute fact is that the script is not the end all be all.
Tyrannus
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Yoda You conveniently ignored the part where I said democracy doesn't have to do with minority races. You did say all characters use EU stats at one point until I corrected you. I've spoken to many people here actually. You keep acting like on expert on things you don't know. Your literally the only person I know who gets offended by links. No ones arguing for me. You don't have a leg to stand on because you claim you haven't seen it.

Do you not know how gravity works? This is astounding now. It's harder to send things up then is it down. Read the ROTS book (or the script). Sidious was disarmed of his lightsaber and was about to die. He had to get away. Yoda can't fight Sidious and clones while exhausted.

A character having powers used in EU doesn't suddenly mean EU take priority. Your making assumptions and pretending to be the expert again. Canon says Darth Marr couldn't become a ghost. That's the end of story. Sith do care about the physical plane which is exactly why they can't become force ghosts. Now your getting it.

No the original debate was on the ROTS battle. I'd ask you to look back but that involved clicking buttons which I know you hate. The part of the script not being changed was relevant because that's what I'm referring to. You tried to slip past that. What's more important than the script for the movie?
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious You conveniently ignored the part where all you said was that minority = unpopular. And yes, literally every character EU stats, logic would dictate that only applies to characters that aren't Disney exclusive, or can you not use context clues and need to be explicitly told that? I do not get "offended" by links, I'm merely telling you not to use other people's arguments. If you were to link, say a scan, or a clip from actual official material like a scene from one of the movies, that would be fine. Just throwing out somebody else's argument instead of making one yourself is not.

Do you not understand that gravity is not an issue for beings that can use the Force to jump extremely high with ease, levitate and in some cases even fly? Exhausted or not, clones are not a threat to Yoda in any way, considering that Yoda is easily a universal level threat.

Literally every character that isn't Disney exclusive has EU powers, and the reason for that is because the EU takes priority. The only person making assumptions here is you, because you have no idea how things actually work here, meanwhile I do, BECAUSE I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW. Also there's the fact that the creator of the site had to give people access to edit things, and he's fine with all the profiles being EU based so... your whole point is pretty much invalidated there. Disney rules don't work on an EU character, try again. Darth Marr did become a Force ghost and that is completely factual. And in The Old Republic, there's scenarios where even Emperor Valkorion, who was completely focused on the physical plane, became a Force ghost.

This entire battle is RotS Yoda v. DE Sidious, not RotS Yoda v. RotS Sidious, as you had to be told early in the debate. Once again, the script is not the end all be all, because things in the script get changed. One specific part not being changed is entirely irrelevant, because it doesn't change the fact that things in the final script get changed in the final product, ergo, it is not the end all be all. Things more important than the script, well, considering that this is a debate scenario, actual feats and powerscaling matter far more.
Tyrannus
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Yoda I never said minorities = unpopular. That's why I mentioned democracy. Rey and Kylo Ren doesn't use EU stats. Wrong again. You can't say then that all characters use EU. If your wrong here your probably wrong in other things too. Like I've said, no one's arguing for me. By not acknowledging the evidence you've conceded defeat.

Gravity is always pull objects down. Gravity still exists in star wars. I'm astonished I have to tell you this. If your tired you can't fight.

Your making assumptions again. It never says EU takes priority, it just uses everything including EU. How long I've been here still isn't relevant and yet I seem to know more. Yes Disney rules don't work with EU characters meaning Darth Marr could no longer become a ghost. It's funny how your looking for other characters as examples but can't find any for Sidious. It is complementary that you look at my profile though.

You keep saying things get changed but the part I'm referring to wasn't changed. Scripts being changed is irrelevant because that part will never be changed. Your looking for excuses now. You didn't answer when I said what's more important than the script for the movie? I've got you now.
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious Rey and Ren don't use EU stats but Jacen and Jaina solo are on this site and they use legends stats. Just except it @Tyrannus we gave you everything EU is just as relevant here as Disney canon.

Can you find anything EU on Luke Skywalker's profile?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 1 d
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Darth Sidious You literally said I'm unpopular because I've voted in the minority. I love how you completely ignored the fact where I said common sense would dictate exclusively Disney characters wouldn't be EU based. And again, faulty logic, being incorrect in one thing (and I'm not even incorrect) doesn't immediately make someone incorrect in other things, that's fallacious. By that logic, since you're incorrect in voting Galactus over Eternity, you're incorrect in voting Yoda over Sidious as well, GG. And once again, you are using somebody else's argument. That is essentially the same as having somebody else argue for you. So I'm gonna ask you again to make your own argument.

Force. Users. Can. Overcome. Gravity. Were you not aware of this fact, and the fact that Force users can fly/levitate, ergo overcoming gravity? So you're saying that a fatigued Yoda, a being who is capable of destroying a UNIVERSE at full power, wouldn't be capable of overpowering a few clones, who are large building level WITH weapons?

I haven't once looked at your profile, don't know where you're getting that from, you're being fallacious by saying Darth Marr, an EU character, can't become a Force ghost due to Disney's rules, which do not apply to him. And once again, every character that is not Disney exclusive is based on the EU. You want to know why that is? Because it takes priority, and it makes logical sense for it to take priority as Disney is constantly making up new rules for how the verse works while the EU's rules are clear and coherent. And again, the creator of the site is perfectly fine with every non Disney exclusive character being exclusively edited based on the EU, so that shatters your entire point, as you're not gonna overrule the site's creator.

I literally did answer that question, are you blind? I'll even quote where I answered it so you can see it. "Things more important than the script, well, considering that this is a debate scenario, actual feats and powerscaling matter far more." Did you see it this time, or do I need to repeat it again? Feats and powerscaling matter much, much more. I know you don't understand what powerscaling is, but that's just a you problem. And once again, the script is not the end all be all because it gets changed. Just because one part doesn't get changed doesn't mean the script is still the ultimate authority. And considering that parts of the Sidious/Yoda fight were changed... once again, your point is invalidated.
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious Yoda is not universal, he matched Palpatine who is multi galaxy level when scaled, therefore Yoda is multi galaxy level.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 4 mo 23 h 47 m
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Darth Sidious Sidious is universal. You're probably thinking of Vader, who is multi-galactic (at least).
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious How is Palpatine universal but Vader who is 80 precent his power is multi galaxy level?
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Because 80% of a universe would be multiple galaxies...?
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious But multi galactic is third dimensional while universal is forth dimensional by that logic Palpatine should be literally infinitely stronger than Vader which he obviously is not because Vader can break his Force wall _Darth Vader and the 9th assassin #1
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Eh, Vader would just be universal then.
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious If Vader was universal then how is he outperformed by rouge padawans _Star Wars: Purge, how is he matched by Galen Marek _Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, how is He outmatched by pre Empire Strikes Back Luke _Splinter of the Mind's eye, how was he nearly defeated by an imperfect clone of Darth Maul _Star Wars: Tales #9. Boba Fett being able to hold his own against bloodlusted Vader _Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire. Unless you're saying everyone I just mentioned was universal+ please admit that neither Vader nor the emperor are universal, unless you can disprove what I said.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious It's completely factual that they're universal, first of all, as they scale to Darth Nihilus being a universe buster just by existing. And all those Vader anti-feats aren't RotJ Vader. Also in Star Wars: Purge, Vader was holding his own against several Jedi Masters at once, I don't know where you got Padawans from. Oh, and even if those were RotJ Vader feats, the people that could contend with him would just scale to him (except Fett), none of them would just devalue Vader's power, that's not how feats or scaling work.
Tyrannus
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Yoda You said minority races which has nothing to do with this. If it's common sense, why did you claim all characters use EU stats? Given that you've been wrong and inconsistent many times and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge evidence makes it look like your wrong. I changed my vote to Eternity because I've seen the evidence and have been persuaded. You just choose 1 character and stick with that regardless of being disproved. I guess your too proud to accept when your wrong.

You don't get it. Obviously the force can be used to make things go up but it takes more effort to send things up than to send them down. This should be common sense. Yoda lost the will to fight towards the end.

How do you know how long I've been here then, or who I vote for? It's ok to be a fan. Disney rules apply to everything star wars. You said it makes sense but don't have proof for EU taking priority. Don't make assumptions. It's the other way round, because the EU content far numbers canon content, it's the EU that's more complex. You can't pretend that EU is more important just because you prefer that. This site's creator hasn't said EU takes priority over canon. Didn't you say that creators can be overruled?

And we're back with the "blind" insults which shows your losing. Where are feats shown? In the script. I did read that but I gave you the chance the correct yourself. You failed. Powerscaling can be used against you you know. Sidious barely survived his fight with Yoda. Sidious become so fragile in DE Han could kill him. Yoda > Han > DE Sidious. At least I know what it means when somethings canon or EU. The ROTS script isn't changing anymore. What your saying doesn't make any sense. That's like me saying we can't count DE because they probably changed the plot many times before it was released. You sound desperate now.
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious "Nihilus is universal and has passive life drain in which only the most Jedi powerful can resist"
> doesn't instantly absorb the entire galaxy like Galactus or someone like him would.

Most of those Jedi masters should of been fodder to *cough cough Knightfall Anakin yet alone Vader who is supposed to be > Anakin, and he still lost if the 501 didn't show up He would have been dead meat *dead burnt meat* I got the padawan thing because if I remember one of them had a padawan braid and was acting like a teenager.
My bad with the power scaling thing.

Thanks for ignoring my other anti feats.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious You haven't proven anything wrong, in fact, you conceded that DE Sidious is stronger than Yoda, which was the entire point that I cared about. And I said every character has EU stats because it's common sense that I wouldn't be referring to characters that never appeared in the EU.

Considering that Force users have easily defied gravity before, I don't see how that's a major disadvantage. It's a minor inconvenience, at most. And Yoda losing the will to fight is not the same as your initial claim that he cannot fight both clones and Sidious while exhausted.

One, when someone has been on the site for a year, a symbol appears under their profile image when they comment to show such. Two, who votes for what character is shown at the bottom of every battle. I don't need to look at your profile for that. I have consistently given the proof that EU comes first, and yes, the creator of the site essentially did say so, as he is perfectly fine with the Star Wars characters being edited solely based on the EU. And creators can be overruled when there are other forces of authority, such as there being several writers in comics. Nobody here has anywhere near the level of authority that the creator of this site has, that's a false equivalence.

I wasn't using blind as an insult, so... Feats in the actual content override feats in the script, so try again. Anti-feats cannot be used in powerscaling, so try again, but correctly this time. And the script isn't changing currently because the movie is out and already has the changes from the script, you don't even have a point there, and it doesn't change the fact that the script is not, and has never been, the end all be all. And your DE example is faulty because Dark Empire is the finished product, just like how the actual movie of Revenge of the Sith is the finished product. The script is not. Once again, false equivalence.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious @Dark
What the hell are you even on about? Nihilus would have destroyed the universe over time, which was explicitly stated, or did you miss the over time part?

Where's your proof of them being fodder, or are you just assuming that? And that doesn't disprove Vader being universal.

I literally addressed everything because again, not RotJ Vader, and even if it was, everyone there (except Fett) would just scale to Vader, or did you miss where I said that too?
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious He existed for well over a thousand years passively draining everyone he came across, yet he couldn't absorb all the life in one galaxy despite being universal.

Maybe the fact that post RotS Vader is easily the second weakest version of Vader, he plowed through a lot of those "Jedi masters" only losing because he was out numbered and they all had a speed advantage against him.

No I didn't you said "anti feats can't be used in power scaling"
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious First of all, the word galaxy is used interchangeably with the word universe in Star Wars. Second of all, once again, OVER TIME. Nothing said he was just going to snap the universe away, he was going to do it over time.

Still doesn't disprove Vader being universal.

Yet you still decided to bring them back up, and I addressed the fact that none of it would prevent RotJ Vader from being universal.
Dark_Wing
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Darth Sidious By that logic I would be city level if I set out with a sledgehammer and destroyed every building in a city overtime.

Okay, RotJ Vader is universal
Last edited: 2 y 10 mo 15 d ago.
Tyrannus
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Yoda I never once said DE Sidious is stronger than Yoda. I said Sidious could probably use the force more offensively than Yoda but Yoda would easily repel that and still kill Sidious. You conceded defeat when you couldn't accept the evidence I sent. It's at that point you lost.

All Sidous needed to do was pull the senate pods out and drop them on Yoda. Yoda had to catch them, spin them around and then throw them back while still concentrating. Fighting clones and Sidious at the same time while exhausted and having lost the will to fight would have been hard for anyone.

SO you look out for my green lantern symbol. Nice. You don't consistency give proof, you just say EU stats are used and when I tell you it doesn't mean it overrides canon you just ignore that and repeat the same thing. Until you can send me some official statements that explicitly say EU overrides canon I'm afraid your wrong. It's not the case with Lucas who creates, writes, directs, producers and so much more for star wars. Before he sold it, if he said something that was that.

You called me blind. That can only be an insult. Everything that happens in the movie is in the script. Do you know what a script is? I'm the one who had to tell you the script isn't changing anymore. ROTS came out like DE did. That's the finished product. Why would they change the script if the movie came out long ago. This is shocking. I used to think I was talking to someone who knew what they're talking about not a defensive fanboy. What's more important than the script for the movie? If you tell me something that happens in the script then your only helping me (again).
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious You literally did, you said Sidious has the advantage in offensive output. That means he is more powerful. And no, that's not how defeat is administered, try again (and I literally did look at them, doesn't change the fact that DE Sidious surpassed Yoda).

How are clones supposed to exhaust a universe buster, exactly?

I literally don't, it's not my fault that it shows up, everyone who votes on a battle shows up at the bottom of the page. I have constantly given proof, I've given explicit examples from the character pages themselves, and the fact that the creator of this site is okay with it is more than enough. Lucas is not the same, as there have been numerous different writers throughout Star Wars, unless you think Lucas created every single piece of media within the franchise.

If you want to take it as an insult, sure. And I only asked if you were blind, I did not actually call you blind. I don't think you understand that the actual movie differs from the script. What you're saying is that the movie is exactly the same as the script, which is not the case. Did you think I was saying the script changed after RotS came out? You call me defensive so much, yet the only person that's really been acting defensive is you. Because that's nowhere near what I said. And once again, feats and powerscaling are more important.
Tyrannus
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Yoda You conveniently ignored the part where I said Yoda would repel everything Sidious threw at him. What I said makes sense anyway because the dark side is more offensive anyway. I gave evidence, you couldn't counter it, I win.

I've already said Yoda lost the will to fight. Yoda was already exhausted with Sidious.

You literally do. To notice my GL symbol you have to see it. It's a cool symbol isn't it? Mentioning EU stats doesn't mean it overrides canon. That's not evidence. The vote shows more people think Yoda wins. The creators must agree then. Lucas didn't create literally everything star wars but he did have a say in a lot of it and had to sign off on things.

If you genuinely thought I was actually blind then your not that smart. Resorting to insults only undermines your positions but if that's the road you want to go then sure. I won't stoop to that level though. That part of the movie never changed from the script. Saying "I'm not defensive your defensive" is typically what defensive people say. Everything you said takes place in the script. Thanks for the help.
HolyJoe
HolyJoe 3 y 3 mo 29 d
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Darth Sidious Dang, this is a comment with the biggest thread of replies I've ever seen so far on this site.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious I didn't mention it because it doesn't matter, you already said Sidious has the advantage in offensive capability, meaning he is more powerful. That's all that matters, my entire point was getting you to realize the fact that DE Sidious is more powerful than Yoda. As far as I'm concerned, the debate is now over, since that's all I cared about.

So because Yoda didn't have the will to fight, he went from universal to large building level? Since the clones have large building level weaponry, and apparently they would have been able to take Yoda out, I guess Yoda literally became infinitely weaker.

It's literally at the bottom of the page, even when I don't care who voted what, I can still see it. The fact that EU stats are given is evidence enough to support that the characters are their EU counterparts as opposed to Disney, so EU rules should be used. That makes literally zero sense, once again, majority does not always equal correctness, and it by no means implies that the creators agree, that makes no sense whatsoever. Also it's funny you mention that, since Lucas had to approve everything that ever came out of the EU, meaning he approved when it was said in Dark Empire that Sidious was the strongest, and he approved when it took every dead Jedi to overpower Sidious' spirit.

I never once implied that you were actually blind, so... Also I really don't think you can say someone isn't that smart when you used "your" instead of "you're," as would be grammatically correct. And again, never insulted you, if you want to take it as an insult, that's a you problem. And you're missing the point that the script is not the final product, the actual movie is, you cannot use the script as the end all be all. Also no, there's no powerscaling in the script, unless you can give actual examples to support that claim.
Tyrannus
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Yoda The light side isn't offensive anyway yet many jedi have defeated sith. Being more offensive doesn't mean your stronger. Yoda would just repel everything SIdious threw at him until Sidious eventually withers away.

He doesn't have unlimited stamia. That doesn't suddenly reduce his power. If Usain Bolt had just ran a marathon and then you asked him to run the 100m in record time do you think he could do it? Or is he suddenly not the fastest man anymore because he's tired.

EU is used but it doesn't overide canon. Unless you can give me an official statement on this site showing otherwise, the official definitions stand. Given that Galactus has voted Yoda your points have turned against you. Snoke has been stated as the strongest now. DE showed Sidious to be as weak as he was strong.

You literally said "are you blind". Don't try and twist it. That's an insult. Saying your instead of you're is such a minor mistake it doesn't prove intelligence. The final script literally describes in words everything that happens in the movie. Yoda>Han>Sidious. Powerscaling.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Having superior offensive power means you have superior attack potency, which means you are stronger. That's simple logic.

So because a being with fourth-dimensional power is tired, they can now be killed by third-dimensional beings? Even though the fourth dimension is infinitely above the third dimension?

Galactus himself has said he doesn't know the most about comics and powerscaling, so my point still stands. I haven't given proof numerous times that the EU is the main thing used, would you like more examples of the profiles using EU material more than Disney? Andy Serkis does not have the proper authority to determine that, Sidious being "as weak as he was strong" is paradoxical and illogical.

You're the one taking it as an insult, I simply asked if you were, and it clearly wasn't a completely literal question. The final script does not describe everything that happens in the movie, several lines and actions in the final script are different in the movie. Once again, you are not powerscaling correctly. By your logic, basic Clone troopers would now be stronger than Jedi Masters because they killed them. If you actually understood how powerscaling works, you would know that saying Han > Sidious is entirely fallacious, and pretty much all of Sidious' feats and scaling say Sidious is very much superior to Han. Also for your faulty example to work, you'd have to prove that Yoda is superior to Han.
Tyrannus
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Yoda Having a good defence is just as important. Yoda would just absorb anything Sidious used against him and throw it back. Sidious couldn't even stay alive.

So you admit Yoda's infinitely stronger. Debate's over.

I've already said there's more EU content than canon because anything before 2012 isn't canon. Disney controls what actors have to say very carefully. No one spoke out against it so Snoke's the most powerful. Sidious couldn't stay alive. He's a glass canon.

Do you honestly believe that if you went up to anyone and asked if they were blind (knowing that they weren't) that they wouldn't take it anything other than an insult? Given that your known for being short tempered, you probably meant it as an insult. The final script literally describes in words what happens in the movies. It's what actors and directors refer to. You just proved why powerscaling isn't always relevant.
LordTracer
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Darth Sidious Defense is not attacking power. Having a superior defense does not mean superior strength. Superior OFFENSE means superior strength.

That is not even close to what I said, what the hell are you on? I was very clearly referring to the Clones as third-dimensional beings. Sidious is casually fourth-dimensional, as I've explained in the past, Yoda is not infinitely superior to him.

Do I need to bring up how an EU series is getting a continuation again to show that it is very much still in effect? I'm gonna tell you again, because you don't seem to be getting it. Here, on this site, and maybe only here, EU is what matters the most. It has more content, more consistent content, and it is what all profiles that are not Disney exclusive are based on. EU rules apply to these characters, just take a look at really any Jedi Master's powers, or hell, take a look at Sidious' history page. All EU. Sidious being a glass cannon is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that his strength surpassed that of Yoda's.

As I've done that before and people didn't consider it an insult... also really, I'm short tempered? Do you have any actual evidence to support that? What the final script is doesn't change the fact that the actual movie differs from it in quite a few ways. I proved that you can't powerscale correctly, powerscaling is always relevant.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 3 mo 21 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda So why is it that Sidious couldn't get his body to last long and ends up getting killed by Han while Yoda was able to prolong is life for as long as he wanted until eventually becoming a force ghost. Who looks stronger?

As I've said, Sidious would just wither away as he fought Yoda. No official statements showing EU over canon, just assumptions. EU is not more consistent, canon is. Do you know what a glass canon is?

I don't believe that. I noticed you called Dark_Wing an idiot somewhere. You tend to be quite rude when you don't get your way. The final script is for the final movie. That's why it's called the final script. I used powerscaling right, you just didn't like the outcome.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 3 mo 21 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Sidious, because he has the higher attack potency, meaning he can destroy more, meaning he is more powerful. It's quite simple.

Assumptions, like you just assuming Disney takes precedence and giving no evidence on this site to prove such, even though I've given mountains of evidence showing otherwise? The EU is far more consistent than Disney. And yes, I know what a glass *cannon (not canon) is, it is completely irrelevant for the fact that Sidious has superior power. And if you really want to be technical, every single Force wielder is a glass cannon if they don't have their Force walls up or are off guard.

Wow, I've been here for two years and you can only find one example, clearly that means I'm always short-tempered. Unless you've got more evidence than that, your claim is pretty baseless. The movie has differences from the final script, do you not understand this fact? You did not use powerscaling correctly, you used the most basic bare-bones and incorrect logic possible, without even proving half of your claim. Even if we were to go with your incorrect use of powerscaling, you would have to prove that Yoda is superior to Han Solo, otherwise your entire point is invalid. And going by how powerscaling actually works, feats prove that Sidious is superior to both Yoda and Han Solo.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 3 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda You didn't answer the question so you know I'm right. I'm not assuming Disney takes precedence that's fact. I can give you the quote again if you like. EU is not more consistent. It has so much more content and contradicted itself often. Canon has never done so.
https://hobbylark.com/fandoms/Contradictions-in-the-Star-Wars-Expanded-UniverseLegends
Describe a glass canon to me? Yoda was most certainly not one.

You called my buff and I still gave evidence so you just ignore it (again). You wonder why I'm winning. Yoda's beaten a legion of clones. Many clones became stormtroopers who've given Han trouble many times. Han would later kill Sidious. If we look at feats and see how Sidous struggled against Yoda, it looks like Yoda wins.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 3 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious What... I did answer the question... you asked who looks stronger. I responded; "Sidious, because he has the higher attack potency, meaning he can destroy more, meaning he is more powerful. It's quite simple." Were you unable to tell that was my answer to your question? You really just take anything to try and say you're winning, don't you? Disney doesn't take precedence here and that's fact, I've given proof of this numerous times, you haven't given any proof of your claim that actually relates to this site. Also, I literally never said Yoda was a glass cannon (which you keep misspelling), so I don't get what your point is there. A glass cannon is a being with low defense and high power, which just adds to the fact that Sidious has the greater offense, which means he is stronger.

You tried to describe me as short-tempered, yet could only find one example to support such, despite me being on this site for two years. You can't say one example applies to everything, you're gonna need more to prove your claim there. And immediately a fault in your scaling, a majority of stormtroopers are NOT clones, only the very first batch were clones, most Stormtroopers are just random citizens of the Empire. And if we look at feats, and see how Yoda alone couldn't keep Sidious' spirit in Chaos and needed the help of every single dead Jedi (some of which are comparable to Yoda such as Revan and The Hero of Tython), it looks as if Sidious is several times stronger than Yoda.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 3 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda You didn't answer the first question. Higher attack potency means nothing because jedi use the force for defence yet they were still able to oppose the sith. I take the fact that you don't answer questions and ignore evidence as winning yeah. Claiming it's fact isn't fact. I've debunked your assumptions too. You said every force user can be a glass cannon. Is Yoda not a force user? Sidious has greater offence and can be shot by Han or would wither away. His extreme weakness cancels out his strength.

You asked for evidence, I gave it, you ignore and ask for more. What's the point if you have a history of ignoring evidence? It never said Yoda wasn't enough to contain Sidious. Nothing was lost by the dead jedi containing Sidious. There was no opportunity cost. If we look at the life of Yoda and Sidious, Yoda looks far superior.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 3 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Okay, I didn't even notice that was actually a question, especially since it ended with a period. Sidious's physical bodies were feeble for reasons I have explained in the past. Sidious was a Dark Side Nexus, he was too powerful to even remain on the physical plane. Higher attack potency means Sidious is stronger, because he can destroy more. If you can destroy more than your opponent, you are superior to them. That is basic logic, everyone should understand that. I've given zero assumptions, you're the only person who's given any assumptions about how things work on this site. I said every Force user is a glass cannon IF YOU WANT TO BE TECHNICAL. I did not say Yoda is always a glass cannon (though again, it could be argued that he is). Your logic is so basic and nonsensical. Having a weakness doesn't cancel out strength, that's not how anything works. That's like saying Superman isn't powerful because he's weak to Kryptonite. Or Vader isn't powerful because he's weak to Force lightning.

I acknowledged your evidence, first of all, I said it was not enough. You made a claim about me as a person, yet you could only bring one example even though I've been here for two years and have posted over 13,000 comments? One example is nowhere near enough to make a blanket statement about me as a person, so again, your claim is pretty baseless. Dark Empire absolutely said Yoda wasn't enough, because it took EVERY SINGLE DEAD JEDI. So again, feats say Sidious is several times stronger than Yoda.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 3 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda That's a bad thing. He was killing himself. Like I've said jedi don't use the force for attack yet they still opposed the sith. Yoda would repel everything Sidious had and just use it against him. I've used actual definitions. That's not an assumption that's fact. You've assumed that because EU is used that it's suddenly more important. To bring it back to the original point (again) you said Sidious mastered every force abilty which is obviously wrong because if he just became a force ghost there'd be no problem but he couldn't because he's not a jedi. Superman's weakness to kryponite is minor compared to his powers. Sidious's weakness affected his abilty to live.

You asked for evidence, I gave it. You didn't specify multiples examples until after. If you want I can remind you on every comment I see you lose your temper? There was no opportunity cost to them holding him back. Your making it seem like they had lives to live and now they can't. Feats show Yoda as stronger. No one could best him in lightsaber combat, became Grand Master of the jedi, nearly killed Sidious and lived to 900 years through the use of the force. Sidious best feats was his overthrow of the Republic and the jedi order. That required intelligence not power and even then that plan was brought forward by Palagious.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 y 3 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
65 months member
34.5K
Darth Sidious Bad thing, from a certain point of view. It merely showed that Sidious was too powerful to exist as a physical being. Whether they use the Force for offense or not is irrelevant, the facts are that higher attack potency equals higher strength. You've used definitions that apply to things outside this site, so again, assumptions. I'm using facts that I know and have confirmed are true with evidence. The EU is used more than Disney here, that should be obvious, it takes precedence. Again, Sidious' entire page is based on the EU and meant to be DE Sidious, yet you're trying to use Disney rules with him. Sidious did master ever Force ability, the reason he is not a Force ghost is because HE'S IN CHAOS. Were you not aware that dark side Force ghosts go to Chaos? The only exception to that is Darth Marr. Superman's weakness isn't minor, there's times when Kryptonite makes him physically weaker than an average human, which is far more of an affect than Sidious' own power being too much for the physical plane to handle.

Can you prove that I lose my temper on every comment? Because I notice you didn't give any more examples in your comment there. What are you even on about "opportunity cost," you're moving past the main point, being that Sidious was superior to every single dead Jedi to the point that they only overpowered him after combining their power, which very clearly shows that Sidious is stronger than Yoda. That feat alone shows that Sidious is eons ahead of Yoda in power. That is Sidious' best feat, not anything in Revenge of the Sith, not anything in Return of the Jedi, Sidious being so powerful that every single dead Jedi had to combine their power to overpower him is his best feat.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 3 mo 20 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda There's no point in having that power then if you can't live to use it. It's like the Infinity Guantlet in Endgame. I'm not sure if you've seen it so I won't say but if you have hopefully you'll know what I'm talking about. I just told you why using the force offensively doesn't mean your stronger. Dooku used the force more offensively than Yoda yet couldn't defeat him. Do canon and EU have different definitions here? Using EU more makes sense because there's more of it but that doesn't suddenly make EU take priority. Why bother risking his life confronting Luke and his friends if he could just become a force ghost? Obviously he can't do anything after he lost. That makes no sense. I know about Chaos, I've read DE. Forget Darth Marr because he's not canon, this is about Sidious. Using krytonite against Superman can be hard to achieve. There's many things he can do to avoid it. Sidious's rotting body is self caused.

I didn't say you lose your temper on every comment I said your known for it. This debate can be counted as a second example. Is that a yes then for me to remind you next time I see it? If I give more examples you'll probably just say "is that it" or just ask for even more. It makes you look worse but sure. It was no problem holding Sidious back. He wasted his last chance so it was all good. Sidious dying makes him eons ahead of Yoda? You sure? That wasn't even a fight really, this question is about who'd win in a fight not who can contain who.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 y 3 mo 16 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
47 months member
14.3K
Darth Sidious Man, I haven't seen a debate this long since Kratos vs Wonder Woman.
DarthNihilus003
DarthNihilus003 2 y 8 mo 4 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
32 months member
4.6K
Darth Sidious Did you guys stop debating?
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 2 y 2 mo 6 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda It ended because I won
Mr_Incognito
Mr_Incognito 1 y 6 mo 11 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
36 months member
18.1K
not voted I guess choosing to not reply means you concede defeat. Huh, never knew that.
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 4 mo 29 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda They were both knocked off the podium. Yoda ran out of time because the clones were coming. Yoda actually disarmed Sidious's lightsaber. Sidious kept trying to keep his distance to tire Yoda out while he was trying to climb up to him because he knew he'd lose.
Jongensoden
Jongensoden 3 y 7 mo 26 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
61 months member
95K
Darth Sidious omg does nobody hery know who sidious is
show 1 reply
Tyrannus
Tyrannus 3 y 5 mo 8 d
Yoda vs Darth Sidious
42 months member
17.9K
Yoda Do you know who Yoda is? Sidious just about stalemated him while trying to run away and tire Yoda out.

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Yoda wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Yoda wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!
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Yoda wins!
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Darth Sidious wins!