The FlashvsKratos (GoW)

Kratos (GoW) Are you still on this? Once again, Helios' attacks can cover an infinite distance in finite time. If you weren't aware, that equals infinite speed. Kratos can dodge Helios attacks and scales above other Gods that are faster than Helios.

Kratos (GoW) Game mechanics, and what makes you think Kratos would go 100%, balls out to the walls, maximum power against random canon fodder, especially when this is NORSE Kratos, who is constantly suppressed? Also you've failed to prove that Flash has speed greater than just being massively faster than light.

Kratos (GoW) Kratos has remained suppressed even when there are threats to Atreus, so... your whole point there is invalid. And I never once said Kratos would immediately blitz Barry. When he learns that Barry is actually a threat (and that would only happen if I highball Flash), THEN he'd go all-out. And as for those Flash feats...
Outrunning Death - Unquantifiable.
Attosecond Reaction Time - MFTL+.
Entering the Speed Force - That would actually be immeasurable speed, not infinite speed, but first you'd have to prove that the Speed Force is a higher plane of existence.
Outrunning the Big Bang - Unquantifiable.
Being in Two Places at once - That can be MFTL+.

Kratos (GoW) That doesn't prove it's a higher plane of existence, try again. Surrounding 52 universes doesn't instantly make it immeasurable speed, it doesn't even make it infinite speed. If the Speed Force were to transcend INFINITE universes, or be a fifth-dimensional realm, then it would be a higher plane of existence.

The Big Bang did not create time, the Big Bang created a TIMELINE. There is a difference. So again, not immeasurable speed, it's unquantifiable.

Kratos (GoW) *facepalm* I said it would be immeasurable speed IF YOU COULD PROVE THAT IT IS A HIGHER PLANE OF EXISTENCE. Try again.

Fourth-dimensional is not a higher plane of existence. It has to be FIFTH-dimensional or higher for that to be the case. So again, you have no proof of Flash even having infinite speed.

Kratos (GoW) We... know... what the fourth dimension is. It actually exists in real life (as far as we know), that's why it's not a higher plane.

The Flash I got your back @Dark_Wing
"A flowing world of mystery, silver, morphing hyper-dimensional gels. Speed Heaven, the source of my power." - Wally West

"The Speed Force is an extradimensional energy source in the DC Universe that lets speedsters travel at otherwise impossible speeds as well as do other nifty tricks without being hindered by physics. In the Post-Flashpoint continuity, the Speed Force is the very cosmic force that pushes time forward." - Comicvine

"I'm part of the Speed Force now. I'm part of infinite energy" - Wally West

"In the DC comics, the Speed Force is an extra-dimensional energy that allows the various Flashes, as well as most other speedsters, to be able to move through time and reality, as well as enhancing their speed and giving them other powers of movement." Arrowverse Wiki

Kratos (GoW) All I'm seeing is that it ranges all over the infinite multiverse, which is either infinite speed or nigh-omnipresence. And that's only when he's in the Speed Force, he'd have to actually enter it before being that fast, giving Kratos ample time to utterly obliterate. And once again, Kratos was constantly suppressed and hiding his godly nature. He's not going to actively try that hard against some random opponents.

The Flash Comicvine is not a official source I know that. I was just giving a example of what the Speedforce is in the minds of others.

Wally West who knows the speed force best IMO stated it "Infinite Energy"

Arrowverse is relevant. The Speed Force is a nexus concept, meaning it is the same everywhere. For example Mxy and Trigon are nexus beings.

@LordTracer are you trying to say Kratos speedblitz? @Dark_Wing hold my beer

Kratos doesn't go ******* his opponents, exactly. Flash can fight in picoseconds and blitz Kratos

The Flash * Hard +***+ On

Kratos (GoW) You mean in facts Kratos has infinite speed and Flash is MFTL+. You're the ones who haven't proven that Flash has infinite speed yet, you've only proven that the Speed Force does, and even then you haven't done it well. Also neither of you have proven that Flash has enough attack potency to even scratch Kratos, and even if you can prove that Flash has greater speed than Kratos, you'd have to prove that he can even damage Kratos, otherwise the fight would simply be a stalemate. Either way, there's no way this ends with Flash winning.

The Flash "You mean the fact that Kratos has Infinite speed and The Flash is MFTL+, You're the ones who haven't proven that Flash has infinite speed, You've only proven that the Speed Force does"
Um....Tracer bro. I just got here homie. I gave one comment and I suddenly can't prove anything. Like I said I just got here so can you give me proof that Kratos has infinite speed? I mean you just said Kratos doesn't try against his opponents so he won't be expecting the Flash to be that fast.

"Neither of you have proven that Flash has enough attack potency to even harm Kratos"

Flash destroyed the Anti-Monitors machine, Can hit with the mass of a white dwarf star, Has harmed Superman, Has harmed Darkseid, can hit at speeds faster than light etc etc. Where is your proof that Kratos' durability is greater than Flash's AP?

"Either way there is no way Flash is winning"
Yes, by a speedblitz

If you want to use outliers then I'll use one myself. Flash has easily outpaced Superman before, You know the Superman that can move places in half a instant? The Superman that can outmaneuver Darkseid's Omega Beams? The Superman that can travel to the Source Wall (IIRC Minutes), Flash himself has outpaced both The Black Racer and The Black Flash both of which are Death Incarnate. Death should have infinite speed? Actually immeasurable speed. Flash can react to Pre-Defeat Godspeed. The fastest speedster to exist and more. Prove to me that Kratos has such abilities

Kratos (GoW) @Dark All of those Superman feats are not from Post-Crisis, except for the last one. The first one is Pre-Crisis, the second is Superboy-Prime and the third is not only an outlier, but Darkseid is only universal because he scales above Superman.

@MoP Helios' light covered the entire underworld, which is infinite in size, in finite time. Covering infinite distance in finite time is infinite speed, and Kratos can not only dodge this light, he can react to and tag Hermes, who can also react to this light.

Flash destroying Anti-Monitor's machine was Pre-Crisis. Mass of a white dwarf star is solar systemic at most. Harming Superman and Darkseid are universal feats. Greek Kratos has greater durability than Atlas, who can withstand holding up the Pillar of the World, which holds up the entirety of creation. That's universal, at least. Kratos later became strong enough to equal and later kill Zeus, who could easily destroy chains that overpowered beings equal to Atlas. Oh, and Hades and Poseidon, both of whom are stronger than Atlas, fear Zeus. And Kratos surpassed him. And that's only Greek Kratos. Norse Kratos is equal to Thor, who splintered the World Tree (which transcends space-time in all nine realms), and Kratos can become even stronger than that if he uses the Blades of Chaos.

Speedblitz doesn't work if Flash doesn't have the AP to harm Kratos (and he very much doesn't).

I haven't used any outliers, wut. Also, the only one of those that's actually quantifiable is Superman moving at half an instant... except that's from Post-Flashpoint, so irrelevant here. Darkseid's Omega Beams don't have infinite speed unless you can prove they do, so irrelevant. Traveling to the Source Wall is unquantifiable, so irrelevant. Black Racer, Black Flash and Godspeed don't have infinite speed unless you can prove they do, so irrelevant again.

Kratos (GoW) That is not how it works in any way, DC has had characters survive hits from somebody infinitely greater than them several times. Also Superboy-Prime is more than universal, he is superior to Pre-Crisis Superman, who is superior to Post-Crisis Superman, you cannot scale Post-C to Superboy-Prime. And even with Darkseid's avatars it's an outlier, as Darkseid consistently matches the entire Justice League.

Kratos (GoW) I never once said he was supposed to be Pre-Crisis Superman. I said he was superior to Pre-Crisis Superman.

Kratos (GoW) Superboy-Prime was stated by Pre-Crisis Superman to be comparable to himself, and he only got stronger afterwards. Superboy-Prime has also thrown hands with beings comparable to Anti-Monitor, and even damaged The Anti-Monitor.

Kratos (GoW) Yes, he can, because he's faster than Pre-Crisis Superman. Oh, and he's not flying faster than infinity, he broke the bounds of infinity. Also damaging The Anti-Monitor is not PIS in the slightest, considering that it was base Anti-Monitor while Corrigan was struggling with CoIE Anti-Monitor and Pre-Crisis Supergirl, who is weaker than Superboy-Prime, nearly killed base Anti-Monitor. And again, Superboy-Prime has fought beings comparable to The Anti-Monitor. And as for Pre-C Supes talking about how strong Prime was (before he even became Prime), ahem: and ahem:

The Flash @Tracer, I am going to need proof that The GoW Underworld is infinite. I will also need proof that the speed is consistently at that speed. And if you can't prove that the speed is consistently "infinite" then you have no proof that Kratos dodged "infinite" speed

Also Atlas doesn't hold "All of Creation" you can clearly see stars in the sky, Refer back to the trailer featuring the Primordials. The sun looks like a perfectly normal star in which Earth orbits. "All of Creation" clearly means Earth. As in Greek Mythos and basically any other verse Atlas holds planet earth. And if you say the GoW is flat or round (doesn't really matter) It clearly isn't infinite as for the flat earth you clearly can see a edge and a round earth is self explainatory. Also its called the "World Pillar" not "Creation Pillar" or "Universe Pillar" that should be obvious bruh. The last time I checked he had trouble lifting rocks and use them for catapults. And surviving a single finger from Atlas who is not literally lifting the world but the pillar, is not a proof of he being 'universe buster'.

Flash destroying Anti-Monitor's Machine was Pre-Crisis? My bad

The Flash "Mass of a white dwarf star is solar systemic at most" And Kratos can get harmed and even killed by mortals. Nuff said

"Harming Superman and Darkseid are universal feats" Harming Darkseid is a Multi-Universal feat at least but eh. You yourself said Kratos has around universal level durability. Harming Superman and Darkseid as you said is universal so by your words that proves Flash has AP to harm Kratos

Also I'm going to need proof that Kratos has higher durability than Atlas. Also you do know Zeus basically was insane. Also if you kill someone doesn't mean you are physically stronger. The Marvel Zombies killed Earth Z Galactus, Does that make them physically stronger? No. Kratos had to kill the gods for the sake of the plot. Same as how Superman defeats Darkseid or the Avengers/Earth's Heroes defeating Galactus

I'm going to need proof of the World Tree transcending space time, Also I'm going to need proof that Kratos is equal to Thor.

Speedblitz does work if you have the AP in which by your words alone. Flash does have the AP

The Flash But you did use outliers bruh. Saying Kratos has infinite speed simply by dodging light in who h you haven't proved actually travelled that fast and because he tagged Hermes. IIRC GoW website said Hermes travels at Light Speed? So....At most Kratos is SoL but I doubt that since a rock thrown at him at supersonic speeds knocked him out and he didn't dodge it. If he supposedly has infinite reaction and movement speeds then how does this rock even come close to hitting him? Because Kratos isn't FTL or even FTS


Um...You of all people should know that I use a composite of Post Crisis, New 52 and Rebirth. I never specified it because I didn't think I had to. Also Barry wasnt really affected since he caused Flashpoint. Darkseid's Omega Beams have MMMFTL+++ speeds. The Source Wall is at the edge of The Multiverse. Which is infinite in size. Meaning Superman has infinite speed since he travelled infinite distance in finite time.

The Flash Don't get me wrong, It's not like Light speed in GoW is an impossible feat for any character of the game. But you said Hermes and Kratos is faster than light because 'they can dodge Helio's light beams at point blank'. Now this is not just a fake stat, but the 'I can shoot some light effects therefore my attacks are light speed' is so ridiculous... A lot of characters use light based attacks but their attacks are never in that spectrum of speed. For example, Dr Light can shoot light beams and Teen Titans can dodge them. Deathstroke can sidestep Starfire's energy vision and tag Kid Flash, Batman has dodged The Omega Beams. Does this mean that these characters are faster than light? No. It simply means they can anticipate a move. Most likely what Kratos did to the attack which I want proof is even Light Speed

Infinite speed implies Kratos or The Flash gets everywhere they're going in 0 seconds flat, which is not the case. Even if the number is so small it rounds down to 0, it takes them time to move. The only time this would've been possible is when Wally achieved transtime velocity in The Human Race, which was still not infinite as it still had a movement time associated with it. The only way to have "infinite speed" is to be a teleporter of some kind, but that's not really speed anyways. So therefore Kratos doesn't have infinite speed.

Kratos (GoW) Size of the Underworld, proving it is indeed infinite in size -
Helios illuminates this infinite distance -
Imagine asking for consistency for a video game character that does not have several writers throughout history like comic characters, which is the entire reason consistency is that big of an issue. Also the head of God of War said Kratos appears far weaker in the games than he actually is, because the game would be boring and unplayable if he was portrayed as strong as he actually is, so...

Wow, naming fallacy. That's such a poor argument. Officially stated by promotional material, ALL CREATION would be destroyed if the World Pillar were destroyed. Persephone explicitly states that ALL that came before would end Atlas is said in the instruction manual for GoW2 to hold up the heavens, which, since you want to bring in actual Greek mythology, refers to the upper universe.
So hold those Ls.

Once again, game mechanics, and Kratos is portrayed weaker than he truly is in the games.

Darkseid ain't multi-universal, unless you've got the feats to prove that. I said GREEK Kratos has universal durability. This is NORSE Kratos, who has MULTI-universal durability. So again, Flash isn't even going to scratch Kratos.

If you think Atlas has greater durability than Kratos, you're out of your mind. First of all, 99% of the time, Durability >= AP. And considering the fact that Kratos is superior to Atlas, he would logically have greater durability. And your point about Zeus is completely irrelevant, Kratos matched him in combat and killed him, that very clearly means he is at least comparable.

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/Zt5c47e4a192b9c Freya explains how Yggdrasil transcends space and time, hell, I'll even quote her for you. "The Tree of Life is bound to the fate of this world, just as we are bound to it. The tree nourishes our soils. The dew from its leaves feeds our valleys and rivers. The tree's very existence supports all of creation along its boughs. Its life energy interwoven into the tapestry of life. Birth, growth, death and rebirth. Every strand transcending time, transcending space."

Kratos = Thor

Speedblitz doesn't work because Flash doesn't have the AP to harm a multi-universal being.

Okay, what you just said is possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. One, you aren't even using the word outlier correctly. Two, THE LIGHT COVERED AN INFINITE DISTANCE IN FINITE TIME. THAT IS INFINITE SPEED. And once again, YOU'RE USING GAME MECHANICS AS ANTI-FEATS.

Why should I care what you use when the Flash in this battle is Post-Crisis and Post-Crisis only? Flash was very much affected by Flashpoint, he became weaker just like the other Post-Flashpoint characters. Darkseid's Omega Beams, according to what you said, don't have infinite speed, so it means nothing to Kratos.

Already proved Helios' attack is infinite speed, next.

Or, something you clearly failed to consider, maybe they DON'T ALWAYS TRAVEL THAT FAST? Your logic is so faulty it's painful. Do you think they're just unable to move at normal speeds if they want to? You clearly don't understand how infinite speed actually works.

not voted It doesn't take a genius to know that.

Kratos (GoW) Can I get some fries with all that salt, please? And how about you learn to properly powerscale before you come after facts?

Kratos (GoW) Lol, did you actually report my comment? Nice abuse of the function. And I'll stop saying it when you stop being salty. And I already debunked your reasonings for not using powerscaling (even though you literally just used it, but okay).

Kratos (GoW) No. Only if they scale to Helios.

Kratos (GoW) The report function is for:
1. Excessive swearing
2. Offensive things (such as calling someone a r**ard or something similar)
Not for something "annoying," which is opinion based.

Kratos (GoW) Wrong. Artemis does not scale to Helios, nor Kratos. Hermes scales in speed alone.

Kratos (GoW) So by your logic, if a bunch of people do something wrong, it's all of a sudden okay. So if a bunch of people jump off a bridge, you're going to jump?

Kratos (GoW) Yes, because I'm going to hunt down every last person who unjustly reported as opposed to the one right in front of me. Because that's logical.

Literally nobody claimed all the Gods scale to Helios, what are you on?

Kratos (GoW) Just remove your unjust report, stop being a child about it.

Wrong, because as said by the makers of the game, things in the game have to be downscaled so the game is actually fun and playable. So I reiterate, Kratos has infinite speed, this is at least the third time I've proven this.

Kratos (GoW) And why do you ask?

Kratos (GoW) Except I've given proof of it. Three times. At least.

Kratos (GoW) And I explained why that's the case. So again, Kratos has infinite speed.

Kratos (GoW) Imagine trying to use game mechanics to downplay a character, can't be me.

Unless you want to go against the writer, who explicitly explained why Kratos doesn't blitz the entire game, concede that he has infinite speed.

Kratos (GoW) Not comparable claims in the slightest. Kratos having infinite speed is factual, and backed up by the writers and content in the games. RKThor beating five Beyonders is assumption based entirely.

That's what we call CIS - character induced stupidity. Also it is unknown whether the comics are canon or not, so your entire argument is invalid.

Kratos (GoW) Except it's not because the writer explained why he doesn't do that, so you're still incorrect, good job. And where's your proof of infinite speed being an outlier when there's other infinite speed feats in GoW?

And you're swapping back and forth again to suit what you want. CIS is in the same boat as PIS and outliers. They are invalid and unusable. And it certainly doesn't prove he doesn't have infinite speed when he clearly does. Also the comics are not the same as the lore, so try again. Or finally concede and stop bringing this up so I don't have to keep defending this character.

Kratos (GoW) Except the writer's reason is canon, so again, Kratos has infinite speed, stop being an idiot and using game mechanics to downplay him.

I'll stop defending him once you stop coming after him with utter nonsense and zero evidence. I have proved several times that A. Kratos is universal, B. Kratos has infinite speed, and C. You have no evidence to the contrary and have proved at least three times that you're unable to contend this point. And Kratos having infinite speed is neither PIS, nor an outlier, so you cannot compare them. So, are you finished being salty about the fact that Kratos is actually powerful or do you want to lose some more?

The Flash C'mon, Tracer. Do you really think Kratos has a chance against a guy who can react in an attosecond and manipulate time? Kratos is stronger, but I doubt he's even as fast as Barry. The VS Battles wiki only states his speed is POSSIBLY and/or LIKELY infinite.

Kratos (GoW) 1. I don't even go off of VSBW.
2. I've proven numerous times why Kratos has infinite speed, @Dark you can be salty about it all you want, it's not going to change proven fact.
3. Flash wouldn't even be able to scratch Kratos.

Kratos (GoW) A solar system level attack, not gonna phase Kratos.