Superman (Post-Crisis)vsJiren

Created by 10earthquakes

37 wins (55.2%)
Superman (Post-Crisis) (Kal-El) 28
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Official Superhero Database stats.
30 wins (44.8%)
Jiren (Jiren) 20
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Official Superhero Database stats.

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LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Are you actually still on this? It has literally been over a week.

Jiren is beyond the natural laws of time. As Vados said, he transcends time itself. If she simply meant he resists the time skip, she would have specifically said that. Goku didn't transcend time at that point, Hit didn't even have the ability to stop time at that point. He only got that during the Tournament of Power. When he fought Goku, he could only move forward in time.

Jiren broke out of the time skip because he transcends time, as Vados explicitly stated. Your Goku example is not the same thing at all, because Hit couldn't actually stop time at that point.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) I've used the week that passed to prepare for the debate between me and you.

Incorrect. The Dragon Ball wiki states that the Time-Skip is a technique where the user skips time for a tenth of a second, and in that limited time, they are able to move freely. The technique does not stop time, however, and the user's foe will still be able to move.

You said before "Jiren overcame Hit's hax via being stronger than him". That isn't the same as transcending time.
Last edited: 10 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren For what debate, exactly? I do not recall agreeing to any other debate.

Really? You're using the Dragon Ball wiki? The same site that says there's a form called Super Saiyan A-Type and treats GT as a sequel to Super. Aight... also that explanation just supports what I said. The Time Skip is not stopping time. Goku broke through the Time Skip, Jiren broke through Hit stopping time.

When Vados explicitly explains it as Jiren transcending time, yeah, it does.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Yes, unless you have anything better than that.

Right here, Hit is in his own dimension while Goku's not stopped in time after using the Time Skip.

From episode 72 of the anime, Vados stated Hit doesn't stop time nor freezes it, he skips it. What he does is basically move forward in time to where he'd be in X amount of seconds he can use Time Skip for.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Uh, maybe the actual anime and not a wiki that uses stuff that's explicitly incorrect (i.e. DBGT being a sequel to DBS).

That is the manga, which is an entirely separate continuity. DBS doesn't work like DBZ does when it comes to the anime and manga. They are both vastly different. And yes, that further proves what I said of Hit's Time Skip not being what stops time.

Yes, that was episode 72. Over THIRTY episodes before Jiren fights Hit in episode 111, where Hit first unveils his Time Prison that freezes whoever he's hit in time.
Last edited: 10 d ago.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Look, if Jiren really transcended time, Hit's time-related techniques wouldn't even phase him because he would exist on that level. Jiren's literally struggling to move there and you clearly said: "Jiren overcame Hit's hax via being stronger than him". In Super, it just has been implied that with enough power, a 3D being can overcome 4D abilities. But regardless, Hit did self-improve after this fight had taken place. Unless you can also say the Flash is 4D because he managed to resist a time stop before, Jiren doesn't transcend time by Vados' statement.

Being beyond time means either one of the two:
1. You experience the entire time-line simultaneously and the past/present/future are all one & the same to you, but are still bound to the limitations of that time-line. Examples include the likes of Dr Manhattan, or Thanos with IG.
2. You exist in a state beyond the time-line all together, and you can poke in & out of it at any point you like, without being limited by it. Examples include Mr Mxy or Living Tribunal.

Also, being "beyond time" would almost always imply the ability to time travel and moving in a time stop's not the same as time travelling.
Last edited: 9 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren That is not ever implied in Super. I would love to see where it was ever implied that a 3-D being can resist 4-D hax. Vados does not say "Jiren has power beyond Hit's abilities." She says; "Jiren has power that transcends time itself." Plain and simple. The only reason Jiren struggled at first is because he had suppressed himself down to 4-D against Hit. Which characters in DBS have actually done, such as when Goku made himself human level to take out some criminals. Which Vados knew. The Angels can tell when someone is suppressed, Whis did it earlier when he realized Jiren was the mortal beyond the Gods of Destruction. So Vados was NOT referring to the suppressed Jiren, she was referring to a full power Jiren.

So yes, Jiren does transcend time, as Vados explicitly said.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) No, but it is implied throughout the entire Dragon Ball mini-series that an opponent's Power Level can surpass an ability. The writer himself has stated having a higher Power Level than your opponent usually means you can overpower their abilities. Again, Hit's time-skip is EXTREMELY limited in scale/functionality. He's not stopping time, he's skipping it. The only technique that he has that can stop time is his Time Freeze, and so far, he hasn't used that on Jiren.

As I said before, in order to be beyond time:
1. You experience the entire time-line simultaneously and the past/present/future are all one & the same to you, but are still bound to the limitations of that time-line.
2. You exist in a state beyond the time-line all together, and you can poke in & out of it at any point you like.

Transcending time is not as "plain and simple" as one might think.
Last edited: 9 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Yeah, here's the thing though. That does not prove your claim that a 3-D being can resist 4-D hax in this series. Hax scales to the user in DB unless it is explicitly stated to surpass the user. He literally did freeze time on Jiren. That's what the Time Prison is for.

Jiren surpasses time. That's just a fact. Vados said so, and there is absolutely NO reason to say she's incorrect. Your examples are most definitely not the only ways for characters to be transcendent of time, that first example isn't even being beyond time. That's just nigh-omniscience/cosmic awareness.
LuciferMorningstar
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Superman blitzes lol

Darkseid is not Jiren or Superman level at all.
show 1 reply
jongensoden
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Superman solo's 99 percent of dragon ball
EmptyHand
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) About that darkseid vs jiren debate down there, I'm just gonna comment on how Superman did this to darkseid


And how Superman his heat Vision can match darkseids omega beams


And how he's also unaffected by his omega beams
show 5 replies
AkhilPDX
AkhilPDX 18 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
Jiren Jiren has been stated to be above Beerus (and regardless of the accuracy of the statement), it's safe to say they're relative. Superman also beats Darkseid for the sake of the plot and no matter how many wins he has, a Darkseid avatar / emanation at its peak has soloed the Justice League numerous times and has taken down characters more powerful than a herald tier hero.
jongensoden
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Jiren is not even close to multiversal
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren "regardless of the accuracy"
Are you trying to imply Jiren isn't superior to Beerus? Because I'd love to see what makes you think Beerus can even touch Jiren.
AkhilPDX
AkhilPDX 18 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
Jiren @LordTracer I honestly don't know who's more powerful but I've heard conflicting arguments so that's why I said that.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Conflicting statements from where? Literally everything in the anime points to Jiren being stronger than Beerus. Hell, a full power Jiren was capable of killing Belmod (a God of Destruction that's physically stronger than Beerus) with his aura alone. And Jiren has his limit breaker state on top of that, which was able to hold its own against Ultra Instinct Goku.
EmptyHand
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Superman wins
AkhilPDX
AkhilPDX 19 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
Jiren Jiren would basically repeat what Doomsday did to Superman but better. He's on the same tier as someone like Darkseid (avatar).
show 39 replies
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) I'm sorry, but Jiren is nowhere as powerful as Darkseid.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Correct. He's stronger.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) No! Jiren's definitely not stronger than Darkseid. Against Post -Crisis Superman, maybe, but Darkseid's on an entire different level. As I said before, Darkseid's fall mere fall broke the Multiversal structure and damaged the Orrey of Worlds with the 5D Bleed across all of time. He nearly succeeded in dragging the contents of the Orrery into a multiversal singularity and everything was one with him. While dying, he created an endless number of realities to torture Shilo Norman and charged Batman with enough Omega radiation to destroy time.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Mate, all of that is Darkseid's true form. Akhil explicitly said Darkseid's avatars.

Plus I could easily argue Jiren slaps Darkseid's true form as well.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Bro, can you stop calling me "mate"? You're not Australian.

Even when he was significantly weakened, Darkseid defeated both Mordru and the Time Trapper Controller and absorbed their energies and the energy from all of the Sorcerer's World. He was still weaker than normal at that point, but Highfather stated Darkseid was capable of destroying Takion, who also admitted Darkseid was more powerful than him. He took absolutely no damageagainst Pre-Crisis Superboy and Supergirl who were heavily amped and his Omega Beams caused massive pain to the Spectre. Darkseid is so powerful that time collapses when he's removed from his proper place in the timestream and even his consciousness survived in order to channel power after being trapped in limbo.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren And? I can say mate if I want. Australians aren't the only people that say mate.

Also are you just taking this stuff off of VSBW? Because a lot of your scans are on the Darkseid page, lol. Assuming you are, you must have noticed that those feats are for Darkseid's EMANATIONS, not his avatars. Also okay, time collapses when Darkseid is removed from the timestream. Tell me how that's combat applicable, or anything more than a chain reaction. And Jiren transcends time entirely, so not impressive anyways. And feats of Darkseid being stronger than people, that matters why?
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Ironic coming from you. You have OCs that contain the same profile layout that the wiki uses for their characters and you always say that sites like ComicVine are not reliable sources. I never even said anything about Darkseid's avatars.

Apparently, you forgot that Darkseid took absolutely no damage against a heavily amped Pre-Crisis Supergirl who fought against a being named Blackstarr, who had control over the universe in every aspect. He survived a bomb that ripped existence apart. Darkseid's even tanked his own Omega Beams and boom spheres' spatial rendering and his infinite Omega Effect couldn't put him down for good.

So what if Jiren transcends time? Darkseid literally destroys it. As I said before if you were listening, time collapses when removed from his proper place in the timestream. He tore a past version of him from out of the timestream which caused a major collapse. Hell, he could just simply teleport him away like he did to Slobo, Infinity Man, Superman, and the Forever People. Also, he knows how to stop time and the universe collapsing from reaching the present.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren I use their profile layout because it's nice and organized, and I actually use the same layout as FC/OC Wiki, for your information. What does that have to with you using nearly the exact same wording and scans as them? Oh yeah, there's no correlation whatsoever. And ComicVine isn't reliable, why is that relevant? Akhil was the one that compared Jiren and Darkseid, and he explicitly said Darkseid's avatars. So, this is about his avatars.

Wow, universal durability. I'm not impressed, Jiren has tanked a Kamehameha from Goku, who already showed multi-universal power at the beginning of DBS. Hell, even Buuhan was destroying the universe just by screaming in DBZ.

Teleporting Jiren away is BFR, aka, Darkseid would basically be running from the fight. And again, that destroying the time stuff is done through a chain reaction and is absolutely not combat applicable. And Jiren completely transcending time means destroying time wouldn't affect him at all, so...
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Which wiki do you think that one you mentioned is partnered with and where do you think they got the same ideas? If you've read the notes in the Rules section of that site, it clearly states how small they are in comparison to that of VS Battles.

And Darkseid's more durable than you say he is. Again, he survived a bomb that ripped existence apart, his consciousness survived in order to channel power after being trapped in limbo, returned to life after being destroyed by the Spectre, tanked his own Omega Beams and boom spheres' spatial rendering, and was even unaffected by Zeus' lightning. Zeus is beyond time and space and even Darkseid's infinite Omega Effect couldn't put him down for good.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
Jakcj
Jakcj 19 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Also for a heads up. Don't even bother using wikipedia that's also unreliable
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) And here's another thing, Darkseid's countless of times smarter than Jiren. Darkseid regularly has draws in chess matches against Eclipso, can remember events from erased timelines, turned Mars into an Apokolips copy, made a machine to enter the Source, built a spaceship larger than the state of New York, and manipulated people like Mary Marvel into turning evil again, Captain Marvel into making him self-doubt himself, and even Orion into killing himself in the Source and poisoning it. From what that tells you, Darkseid could manipulate Jiren into killing himself or even doubting himself.

Sure, you could argue that Jiren's the better combatant just like Goku, but Darkseid's just as skilled as Orion, who is New Genesis's finest warrior that used a superior set of skills to defeat Kailbak.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren I see you didn't answer my question on how me using the same format is relevant to you using the exact same scans and wording as them. Or my question on how ComicVine's unreliability is relevant. Also you didn't acknowledge how this discussion started based on the comparison of Jiren and Darkseid's avatars.

Yeah, everything you just said can be considered universal. "Ripped existence apart," what is "existence" in this context? "His consciousness survived," so his body didn't even survive which means this isn't a durability feat. "after being destroyed by The Spectre," his body got destroyed so again, not a durability feat. "Tanked his own Omega Beams," based on the scans you've given so far, that's merely universal. "Zeus is beyond space and time," he's existing somewhere beyond space-time, that doesn't mean Zeus himself is beyond space-time. By that logic, humans are 4-D because we exist in a space-time continuum. "Infinite Omega Effect," just being called infinite means nothing. At best, that means infinite 3-D, which is beneath baseline universal.

That Orion scan does not say anything remotely close to making Orion kill himself, and making Jiren doubt himself would just bring out his limit breaker state that was able to hold its own against Goku with a completed Ultra Instinct. Aka, he slaps Darkseid even harder.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Okay, you know what? Show me some scans, because so far, I have not seen a single feat of Jiren from you. I've provided you so many feats of Darkseid's potential and you are just disregarding everything.

Battles and fights are not solely based on raw strength, speed, and durability. There are a number of other factors such as intelligence and abilities that determine the victor. Why do you think Superman was able to beat Goku in that Death Battle? His ability to utilize his vision-like powers and combine them with pressure point strikes is what gave him an upper hand in that battle and his power to absorb the sunlight made Goku tire out of his SSJ4 state. You continually use the characters' physical characteristics and hardly ever take the different advantages that one has over the other into consideration. That's what you struggle with.

I've specifically told you that Darkseid can transmutate his foes and create multiple realities. I even told you about his superior intelligence he has over Jiren. And you blatantly ignored it.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) I'll have you know that ComicVine and VS Battles aren't the only sites I get my scans from. I also use reddit and other sites where I can read comics onlincle. But since you think that ComicVine and VS Battles wiki aren't reliable sources, then I want you to show me a legitimate list of Jiren's feats taken from some of the websites you actually find useful.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Please explain how I'm acting high and mighty. I'm simply going over what you've given and explaining why it means nothing. But you want Jiren's feats? Bet.


Jiren transcends time itself. He doesn't merely exist in a realm beyond time, like Zeus did in your scan. Jiren himself is beyond time.


Jiren utterly humiliated ToP Arc Goku, even once he unleashed Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20. Goku in the Tournament of Power is, lowballed, 500x stronger than he was during the Universe 6 Arc. This is because in the U6 Arc...


Goku was able to match Hit with Blue Kaioken x10...


In the next arc, Goku was able to take Hit down with just Super Saiyan Blue, showing that he got 10x stronger.


Goku was later shown to be on par with Hit in Super Saiyan God, which is 50x weaker than Super Saiyan Blue as a lowball.


This is because Super Saiyan Blue is the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan is a 50x multiplier.

So Jiren is stronger than a Goku that's 500x stronger than he was in the Universe 6 Arc. Universe 6 Arc Goku had three years of training on top of absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God into his base form, which was strong enough to destroy Universe 7.




Universe 7 is composed of several universe sized structures with their own space-times, but I'll lowball it to being a single universe for this.

Overall: Baseline Universal = BoG Arc Base Goku < (Three years of training) U6 Arc Goku < (10x) FT Arc Goku < (50x) ToP Arc Goku < Jiren


Jiren, while not even in his limit breaker state, was capable of killing a God of Destruction on par with Beerus with his aura alone.
Last edited: 19 d ago.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) I'm actually annoyed how you completely ignored the advantages that Darkseid has and how you didn't show Jiren having anything to counter them.

Once again, Darkseid can manipulate matter. He changed Miracle Mister Soap to mud, turned Slo-bo to stone, dissipated Wildfire's energy form in quanta, incinerated Kalibak with a touch, and made a ship bigger than New York State. So what good will it do for Jiren to fire ki blasts at him when Darkseid can just manipulate the matter from them?

Need a reminder on Darkseid's Omega Beams? They can pass through physical barriers, find his target, erase someone from existence, create force fields, tamper with advanced technology, hit intangible beings, and send others through space and time. Has Jiren ever displayed a resistance to existence erasure? No!

How is transcending time any better than someone who can teleport, can go 87 duodecillion times the speed of light, and literally become nigh-omnipresent as he exists within everyone along with being at the core of all things?

Want me to prove to you Darkseid's multiversal and at the very least multi-universal? He's beaten Alan Scott with the multiversal green,taken a multiversal punch from him, and consumed universes.
Last edited: 18 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren You mean the single advantage of intelligence you gave? I addressed that, so...

Ki blasts aren't Jiren's primary method of attack. He uses his physicals far more, or he just glares. Unless Darkseid can see Jiren's glare coming (which is unlikely, because Jiren is faster than time), he's not going to be countering that with matter manip. Plus ki makes it so you can overcome hax via pure power. For example, the video of which is above, Jiren overcame Hit's hax via being stronger than him.


Another example, the VASTLY WEAKER Vegetto was able to continue fighting despite being turned into candy by Buuhan.

The fact that you think Jiren doesn't resist existence erasure tells me you haven't watched much or any of Dragon Ball Super. Jiren is stronger than Gods of Destruction. What's the signature attack of a God of Destruction? That's right, the Hakai! And what does the Hakai do? Ah, yes, it erases the target from existence and even destroys their soul on top of that! And people weaker than Jiren have explicitly tanked the Hakai.




Freeza, Goku and Vegeta were all shown tanking the Hakai.

Because transcending time means your speed is immeasurable. You could be vigintillions of times faster than light, but your speed is still measurable. If you transcend time, you basically break the speed formula by removing the T from S = D/T. Teleportation matters... why? Jiren already fought teleportation users. Twice. Both Goku and Hit have teleportation, Jiren slapped both of them casually. Show me where Darkseid has ever used his nigh-omnipresence in a combat scenario, and then we can talk.

That Alan Scott stuff is New 52. That consuming universes can of yours is also New 52. I don't recall it ever being decided that this was about composite Darkseid avatars v. Jiren. But y'know what, lemme explain why even if you were allowed composite Darkseid avatars, Jiren still slaps.

As I explained earlier, Super Saiyan God Goku in Battle of Gods was universal. That means he's finite 4-D. Prior to going Super Saiyan God, Goku was only galaxy level, aka finite 3-D. That means Super Saiyan God amped Goku by two levels of infinity (finite 3-D => infinite 3-D => finite 4-D). Goku absorbed this into his base form, making his base finite 4-D. So, going Super Saiyan God again would make Goku finite 5-D, because finite 4-D => infinite 4-D => finite 5-D. And that's in the RoF Saga alone. Then remember how Goku trained for three years on top of that, then got 500x stronger before the ToP. That means Jiren is far above someone that is 500x baseline 5-D. Being multiversal is simply infinite 4-D. So even if you used composite Darkseid avatars, hell, even if you used True Form Darkseid, Jiren. Still. Bodies.

And before you attempt to reiterate how I supposedly only look at a character's physicals, actually know how Jiren operates. Jiren steamrolls his opponents through his physicals. That's it. He's even done so to people that are quite intelligent, such as Vegeta.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) I literally showed you Darkseid being nigh-omnipresent within everyone along with being at the core of all things.

Again, he's beaten Alan Scott with the multiversal green,taken a multiversal punch from him, and consumed universes.

Stop f***ing assuming that I haven't watched Dragon Ball Super. Of course I watched it, but I also know what Darkseid's capable of. And no, you didn't address the fact that Darkseid can erase someone from existence.

"Ki makes you overcome any hax?"What kind of a BS statement is that? Is there even a shred of evidence to prove that? You mean to tell me that if Darkseid just incinerated Jiren with a touch, he'd come back from the dead? I don't think so.
Last edited: 18 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Did you just like... not read my last comment? I literally acknowledged that. I asked you to show me where he's used that IN COMBAT. You can have all the abilities you want, but if you are incapable of using them IN A FIGHT, then they mean nothing in a versus match.

"For the last goddamn time" You literally mentioned this for the first time in your LAST COMMENT. Are you just impatient or something? And I ALREADY ADDRESSED THIS. That is NEW 52 Darkseid, and I went over why even if New 52 Darkseid feats were allowed, IT'S STILL BENEATH JIREN.

You make it very difficult to tell that you've watched it when you claim Jiren doesn't resist existence erasure, Goku isn't universal, etc. I literally did address them. I addressed intelligence, matter manipulation, existence erasure, Darkseid being multiversal (which isn't an advantage because Jiren is beyond that), the Omega Beams, transmutation, I have addressed all of that. Or did you just not read my last comments? Quite frankly, it seems like you aren't reading them, because you haven't once contested any of the scaling I've given for Jiren. If anyone is "not f***ing listening" here, it's you.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) I didn't say anything about Goku not being universal. And you didn't explain to me how Jiren would resist all of what I just said. You merely stated that weaker people resisted existence erasure and having ki makes you overcome any has.

I'm really starting to think you hate DC when it comes to Goku vs Superman themed battles, because in my opinion, you're just downplaying Darkseid.

[Url=https://imgur.com/a/ZxDlc32]Time's[/url] not the only thing Darkseid can manipulate. He can also control space, weather, and even creation.
Last edited: 18 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Do I need to go and find where you have explicitly said that you think Goku isn't universal? And yeah, I did explain how he would. Ki users can overcome hax through being more powerful than the person using the hax. I said this already.

How is this Goku v. Superman themed...? And I like DC more than Dragon Ball, so...
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Maybe I said Goku isn't universal, but it certainly wasn't on this battle. You saying that hax can be overcome with ki doesn't make any sense. Ki can be hax too, y'know, so it's not like you'd have to use something like brute strength to break a time stop.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren I never said it was on this battle, though...? How does it not make sense? Vegetto overcame transmutation via being stronger than Buuhan, the person using the transmutation. Jiren overcame time manipulation via being stronger than Hit, the time manipulator. Vegeta overcame existence and soul erasure via being stronger than Toppo, the caster of said hax. Ki users overcome hax via raw strength. It's incredibly simple.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Bah, I'm beat and it's past the time I usually go to sleep. Why don't we continue this some other time? You did well in this debate and I gotta say, nobody's ever given me quite a challenge like you did. I feel like you even helped me improve my debating skills. You're a pretty excellent debater, and I respect that.
Last edited: 18 d ago.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Well, thank you. You're quite good as well, but if I may give one suggestion for DC: make sure you keep your feats to the proper era.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Hey, thanks. You have a good night.
Last edited: 18 d ago.
EmptyHand
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) @Joe the feats you listed out for darkseid are his true form, and akhil mentioned avatar
EmptyHand
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Also the mordru that darkseid defeated was heavily weakened, by feats mordru makes darkseid his b****
LuciferMorningstar
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) @Joe You apparently read none of those scans you posted.
This was pre crisis Mordru, the weakest version & on top of that he was HEAVILY HEAVILY weakened, so was Darkseid yes, but Mordru was in a state of almost dying, then it being his weakest version too. TFDS needed prep to absorb his magic, and the same to Time Trapper, wow so impressive.

TFDS said he needed the ALE to crack the multiverse & that is what he did in Final Crisis, then TFDS literally did that on an already weakened, dying multiverse how impressive.
The Bleed is just blood flowing through the Universes, it is not dimensional at all. It is just some elixir. Then you missed also it states the Bleed ROTATES THROUGH THE 5D. Which means 5d >>> Bleed.

Darkseid never created those realities, those are not even realities, they are scenarios somebody goes through when in the Omega Sanction, scenarios of torture and death. Nice lie again.

Then you ignore that Pre Crisis Supergirl later on whooped darkseid his ass with Superman & then you are ignoring Supergirl again had Superman his help, mostly fighting against Black Starr.

Other scans show him failing, his own Omega Beams were taken by Superman, Doomsday, by Spectre etc etc so many beings took them no problem. Even Powergirl did so what? Wonder Woman deflects them literally.

Bomb that ripped existence apart? Sounds like a Universal bomb, wowieee.
Spectre took the beams no diff & one shotted Darkseid after.

Time collapsed due to how important darkseid was to reality as concept of evil, not due to his power at all as he cant even do that power wise as shown, he needs ale to crack the multiverse in FC, needs to infect the source to even cause any time rippery. He never has done it with his power.

Takion is weak, Takion lost to many beings.
Last one just shows him able to use avatars during being locked in the wall like a *****.
Rest are Universal feats either or again out of context.
You proven he has past versions, and again due to what he is, not power. Aka a chain reaction.
His beams got taken by fodders as proven.

**And here's another thing, Darkseid's countless of times smarter than Jiren. Darkseid regularly has draws in chess matches against Eclipso, can remember events from erased timelines, turned Mars into an Apokolips copy, made a machine to enter the Source, built a spaceship larger than the state of New York, and manipulated people like Mary Marvel into turning evil again, Captain Marvel into making him self-doubt himself, and even Orion into killing himself in the Source and poisoning it. From what that tells you, Darkseid could manipulate Jiren into killing himself or even doubting himself.**

Did you even read any of those stories? Weak post crisis Eclipso, knowing events of timelines is also what Superman does & even Barry Allen. It just means they kept their memory as established, their origin and character still got changed/retconned.
Darkseid manipulated Orion to kill Darkseid aka allowing himself to get killed so the source gets corrupted. Made a machine to enter the source? Did you read the story? He needed Highfather to enter the source wall, let alone the source. Your scan is of when Darkseid made a machine to twist the Source, nice brain feat I agree, but this is not a prep fight so useless.

Ignoring also that Darkseid literally said power wise, he cant even enter the source wall (true form), and needs Highfather his knowledge to do so (do it with him only, alone cant do ****). Shown when he tried & got stuck to the wall like a fly with glue.

Now to you last paragraph and that made me even reply to your worthless wannabe attempt.
The "MULTIVERSAL GREEN HUR DUR" you are aware that the Green in that story was always stated just the multi planet level green, connected through and with all earths only. One multiverse statement against numerous before & after more consistent multi planet level scans, ignoring Alan did not even control the green nor knew what it can bring.
That one attack made Dorkyseid almost knocked out & needed 5 pages to return again.
Then ignoring core of all things is just Darkseid his own ego self statement on how important he is.

And you shown a scan of Constantine tricking Darkseid, making the Universe seem dead, Darkseid literally did nothing there but get tricked by Constantine. Darkseid in the story killed ONE UNIVERSE, which was done AFTER TIME. Needed literally time just to destroy a UNIVERSE. Wanted to destroy another one, but got tricked by John Constantine. Then what happened? AM did the same planet by planet & DIDNT EVEN FINISH OFF HIS UNIVERSE. I have scans for all of those things, it is sad to see how you use outta context **** just to **** Darkseid, not having read the actual context nor stories of it.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) @LuciferMorningstar Your comment literally put me to sleep. You could've just given a brief synopsis of everything you said I got wrong in no more than 500 words rather than just typing an essay filled with insults, smart-a**.
Last edited: 17 d ago.
LuciferMorningstar
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) It was a half assed paragraph @Joe

But it addresses all the wannabe bullshit you used lol. Don't **** Darkseid to what he is not supposed to be. Superman solos
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) You're damn straight it was half-assed!

At least I provided links to the "wannabe bullshit" I used while you just typed a long-ass essay of nothing but insults.

Y'know, if you're gonna debunk ignorance, at least try to back up your claims with scans in an intellectual way instead of being an ignorant scrote.

Now you have a nice day...dumb-ass.
Last edited: 17 d ago.
LuciferMorningstar
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) You provided outta context scans & I gave context to all your feats you ignorant lil suzie.
What do you want proof for? Tell me each stuff you want proof for & I will get it.

Insults? I did not even insult you that much, I mostly addressed Darkseid or insulted Darkseid lol.
You clearly did not read my paragraph. Now for what point do you want proof? I will get it gladly for a ****** like you.

I EVEN SAID I HAVE THE SCANS, YOU JUST HAVE TO ASK FOR THEM ******.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) U mad, bro? Lol. No need to throw a hissy fit, you lil scrote. And as I can see now, you are insulting me more than before. Wow, way to contradict yourself. Thought you were smarter than that. Until you can be a more courteous devil, you may have the privilege of showing me some scans.
Last edited: 17 d ago.
LuciferMorningstar
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) @Joe
Have you read any of the stories you presented?

Anyway what scans do you want? I will give you all of them.
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Are you composed? Good. That wasn't so hard.

Now you may present your scans in a civil and disciplined manner.
Last edited: 17 d ago.
LuciferMorningstar
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) What scans do you need? Just name me the points & I will get them
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) @LuciferMorningstar You're joking, right? You had literally two days to present your scans and yet you're still here asking me which ones I want? That's just sadly embarrassing; you aren't as smart as you sound. It doesn't take a genius or rocket science to understand the meaning of a few sentences. And since you want the basic gist of what you failed to grasp, here's what it is:

All the scans to the half-assed paragraph of "wannabe bullshit" you typed.

So, get to searching and find those scans, or stop wasting my f***ing time on a thread you weren't even involved in!!
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) @LordTracer Okay, let me go back a little bit. IIRC, you said ki users can overcome hax, right? And did you not also say that for users with enormous power levels?
Mxyzptlk
Mxyzptlk 19 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Superman (Post-Crisis) Does jiren has feats that make his billion , trillions than faster than light?
show 1 reply
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Better. He has feats that put him beyond time itself.
Ri
Rivera05 19 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren 3 Vote Left For Jiren
BlotskyA
BlotskyA 23 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
not voted Superman solos DBZ except for Beerus
show 2 replies
DevyEZ
DevyEZ 23 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Superman (Post-Crisis) Beerus is not even the most powerful character in the Dragon Ball verse.
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren *facepalm*
#1: Beerus isn't even in Dragon Ball Z. He's in Dragon Ball Super.
#2: Jiren is FAR stronger than Beerus.
#3: Superman isn't even getting past Buuhan.
jirenkillz
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren Superman has too many kids and fanboys, Jiren could oneshot at his full power.
jirenkillz
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren *stewie's meme with the gun in the mouth*
Atomic_lantern
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren Ew
Ri
Rivera05 24 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren 10 Ben 10 (Cartoon Network)
9 Jiren (Dragon Ball Super)
8 Goku Black (Dragon Ball Super)
7 Spawn (Image Comics)
6 Shin Megami Tensei Dante (Devil May Cry)
5 Melkor (Lord Of The Rings)
4 Unicron (Transformers)
3 Broly (Dragon Ball Super)
2 Sonic (Archie Comics)
1 Dracula (Castlevania)
show 2 replies
Dark_Wing
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) What's that list a ranking of?
LordTracer
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Stop posting random things on battle pages.
Ri
Rivera05 24 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren Yeah. C'mon Superman. I Want Jiren To Take Wins. Because I Will Give Top 10 Anime, Cartoon Video, Games, And Comic Characters Who Can Defeat Superman
ThanosCar
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren Jiren shakes off universe busting attacks with ease. He glanced Vegeta's Final Flash out of existence. He surpassed time itself. This is a stomp in Jiren's favor.
jongensoden
jongensoden 7 mo 17 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) superman
SpiderBitten
SpiderBitten 9 mo 8 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Jiren was beaten in the tournament of power by Frieza and Goku. Superman killed Goku twice in Death Battle. And a lot of people agree on here, that Superman beats Goku (65.7% as of 6/30/19) Superman can get to the pace of the Flash and beat him easily, He broke Green Lantern Energy Constructs, Held a BLACK HOLE in his hand, Moved the earth around many times, bench-pressed the entire earth for five days, and fought his way through the big bang! Who knows what Jiren could do. Oh yeah, and Superman fought an alternate version of himself, and the very punches cause ripples in Time and Space itself. Did we see THAT in T.O.P.? I didn't think so.
show 1 reply
LordTracer
LordTracer 9 mo 8 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Wow, that is some horrendous logic.
1. You're completely ignoring the context of Jiren's defeat. Jiren was totally exhausted and nowhere near at full power.
2. Death Battle is not evidence and they've been debunked numerous times, especially on Goku v. Superman. Actual feats and scaling say Superman gets bodied by Goku.
3. Jiren utterly dominated Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20 Goku, who was casually capable of wiping out numerous universes at that point. Far more impressive than a measly black hole. Oh, and Superman fighting through the Big Bang? That's Pre-Crisis, so it can't be used here. Causing ripples in time and space? Please, Buuhan was doing that by screaming alone. Jiren surpassed time completely.
XSegaTeamPhilosophyX
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Superman puts a whole in his impostor's body.
show 3 replies
XSegaTeamPhilosophyX
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) *a nice hole in
LordTracer
LordTracer 11 mo 22 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren "Imposter"
- Literally nothing about them is similar except for having red in their costume.
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 11 mo 22 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren And that they're aliens.
Deathstroke4U
Deathstroke4U 1 y 26 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Jiren Who voted superman
show 2 replies
Mohamed
Mohamed 5 mo 9 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Me.
Kr
KrMaster 2 mo 17 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Superman (Post-Crisis) Me
Soulcollecter57
Soulcollecter57 1 y 9 mo 13 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
4 year member
Jiren Someone debate me on this.
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 1 y 10 mo 16 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren This is bullshit. Jiren one-shots superman with ease, and it will barely be even a fight. I'm outta here.
show 1 reply
SpiderBitten
SpiderBitten 9 mo 8 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
1 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) Do you even think about the OP feats that Superman has done? Superman can get to the pace of the Flash and beat him easily, He broke Green Lantern Energy Constructs, Held a BLACK HOLE in his hand, Moved the earth around many times, bench-pressed the entire earth for five days, and fought his way through the big bang! Don't assume that Jiren would win easily, Think!
Mohamed
Mohamed 1 y 10 mo 19 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) I Vote Superman.
show 2 replies
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 1 y 10 mo 16 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Why? Jiren is a Multi-universe buster at his best.
Mohamed
Mohamed 1 y 9 mo 13 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) 10earthquakes.
What Do You Mean of Multi-universe buster?
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 1 y 11 mo 1 h 26 m
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren In the end, Jiren pimp slaps the crap outta superman.
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 1 y 11 mo 22 h 50 m
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren And also, I was wrong. He didn't shake the world of void by being there, He shook it by literally just walking. Go watch Jiren shakes the world of void.
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 1 y 11 mo 1 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Superman struggles to move incalculable weight with a friend. Jiren on the other hand, moved incalculable weight just by being there, so yeah Jiren wins.
show 5 replies
TheNemianLion
TheNemianLion 1 y 11 mo 1 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
Superman (Post-Crisis) When did Juren do that? Also, Superman is more than just speed and strength.
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 1 y 11 mo 22 h 56 m
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren Yeah? Well, what other chance does he have that can put down Jiren?
10earthquakes
10earthquakes 1 y 11 mo 22 h 46 m
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
2 year member
Jiren And do you remember the times where superman struggled to lift spectre and that book with a lot of pages? Yeah, Jiren can simply move those things by simply just walking.
Cr
Crazyjacky 1 y 11 mo 21 h 38 m
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
3 year member
not voted @10earthquakes
First: The book and Spectre feats have been debunked, even the writers claimed it wasn't infinite weight.
Second: Jiren never moved incalculable weight, the world of the Void is nothingness, which weighs nothing.
Third: Because what you're trying to state is false, you're argument is invalid.
Ch
Chopperon 11 mo 5 d
Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Jiren
Jiren Well Jiren actually did shake the world of void which is infinite, so I don't underdtand why you Say that, the feat is invalid, If anyone want to learn more about Jiren I would reccomend them to wach Chuck The Cyber Cuck channel on YouTube.

Voting feed

Lord_Of_Apokolips
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Al
Jiren wins!
Oblivion
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
DevyEZ
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
LuciferMorningstar
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Breaker
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
AkhilPDX
Jiren wins!
Jakcj
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Ma
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
jirenkillz
Jiren wins!
IamMoonKnight
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Scarlet_Witch_Stomps
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
EmptyHand
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
azathothstomps
Jiren wins!
Laserblue
Jiren wins!
spectredominates
Jiren wins!
RedEyeJoe
Jiren wins!
ThanosCar
Jiren wins!
Ri
Jiren wins!
CsBat01
Jiren wins!
Mxyzptlk
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
shaneherald
Jiren wins!
Alienx
Jiren wins!
Kr
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Vi
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Sa
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Eydaxor
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Shadowatti
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
bi
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Dark_Wing
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
jongensoden
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Xx
Jiren wins!
_Holy_Joe_
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Atomic_lantern
Jiren wins!
_s
Jiren wins!
SpiderBitten
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
DeanDinosaur6
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
ra
Jiren wins!
LuiTheDawg
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Hurricano
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
HReaper
Jiren wins!
Ch
Jiren wins!
XSegaTeamPhilosophyX
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
NorrinRadd
Jiren wins!
Lantern_Von_Doom
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Deathstroke4U
Jiren wins!
Bane333
Jiren wins!
DarkProdigy
Jiren wins!
ta
Jiren wins!
Dc
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Spaghettiboat
Jiren wins!
LordTracer
Jiren wins!
TheSuspect666
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Soulcollecter57
Jiren wins!
windshadow
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Sw
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
JuggarNot
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Mohamed
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
MisterB
Jiren wins!
ThorGodOfThunder94
Jiren wins!
He
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
TheNemianLion
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Akephalos
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Creature99
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
remy94
Superman (Post-Crisis) wins!
Ay
Jiren wins!
10earthquakes
Jiren wins!