General GrievousvsDarth Maul

Created by luckufu

8 wins (44.4%)
General Grievous 7
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67
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Official Superhero Database stats.
10 wins (55.6%)
Darth Maul 10
statistics
135
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Official Superhero Database stats.

Comments

DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous So yeah keep talking bro if you didn't have crushes on your favorite character then u would agree because I'm right she even said it
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul How do I have crushes on my favorite characters?
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Yes I know because ahsoka didn't finish she explained it go back and watch the show he pulled her out to early
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul I don't remember her explaining anything to Ezra link me the video where she dose. Her plan was to sacrifice herself to beat Vader. Just except it.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous I finished watching the show yesterday she explained everything if Ezra wouldn't have pulled her out they both would have died
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Ezra didn't pull Vader out, and he survived.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Bro u can't answer this u know I'm right just deal with it
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul I've disproved everything you've said. So no you deal with it.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Ok then why else would she stop fighting and randomly stab the ground idiot she had a plan
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Her plan was to sacrifice herself in order to take out Vader, mind you she had no idea Vader would survive that.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Ok then why else would she stop fighting and randomly stab the ground idiot she had a plan
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Exactly ahsoka stabbed the ground with her light sabers too blow them both up
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul That is called self sacrifice, not beating the enemy, and it shows that even Ahsoka knows she isn't nearly strong enough to beat Vader.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Ok go back and watch it dude Ashoka was stabbing the ground with the light sabers to blow the place up and if Ezra wouldn't have pulled her out they both would have died go back and watch and when he pulled her out she screamed no
show 2 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul I don't remember her screaming no, I don't remember her beating Vader it looked like Vader was about to stab her and then Ezra pulled her out at the last moment, you have no proof that they were both going to die if Ezra didn't save her because Vader survived and Ezra didn't save him.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous No one of the clone wars books her and maul face of twice and it ends up with maul running away
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Which issue?
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous And I'm not trying to argue but I know you just love maul and I understand that you want him to win but u have to go to detail and in the books overall grevious would win the only reason this says different is because there is a lot more maul fan boys
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous It's not a specific Ashoka book it was one of the clone wars books and before you ask it was canon
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Star Wars Republic?
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Your just making Darth maul look worse I forgot all about the Ashoka book and beat beat maul in that too so she beat him like 3 times and once again not at full power
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Wil u use grammar and rephrase that so it makes more sense?
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Ok buddy what is your point she wasn't at full power and still easily defeated maul without even using the force and for your information I was talking about the comics not the Ashoka book
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul What Ahsoka comic?
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Ok still not even at half power and still beat maul with ease if u would actually read more and stop being a fan boy
show 1 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul You're making stuff up. When did Ahsoka beat Maul? Ahsoka didn't beat Vader, Vader was about to KILL HER and then Ezra stepped in and saved her.
Last edited: 1 mo 25 d ago.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous They both suck because Ashoka was what 12 and beat both of them in a 1v1 she wasn't even at half power
show 2 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Ahsoka was 14 in the first 2 seasons of Clone Was, 16 in the later seasons and in her 30s by the time of Rebles.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous She wasn't even at half power bro but then again she defeated Vader and before u say anything about that I'd say when your mask is cut off and ur robotical legs are broken u lost
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous It would be good they both suck but I got to give it to grevious yes maul has the force but that doesn't matter grevious has killed Jedi stronger than maul and is trained to fight against the force just like boba Fett
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Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul How do they both suck?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul And tell me who are those "stronger Jedi" that Grievous fought.
Jakcj
Jakcj 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
1 year member
General Grievous Obi-Wan kenobi had a harder time defeating Grevious when he was experienced than his beginner era Darth Maul.
show 3 replies
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul That was Phantom Menace Maul, Clone Wars Maul has kept up with Jedi master Kenobi and every time they fought Maul put up more of a fight than Grievous ever did.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous I agree bro this guy is just a maul fan boy he doesn't read books I do on a daily and maul got beat by Ashoka when she was like 10 she wasn't even at half power
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Ahsoka was 17 by the time of the Ahsoka book. You're obviously the one who doesn't read books on a daily basis.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Maul has beaten Grievous. Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir.
show 71 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous And then it was contradicted by Revenge of the Sith.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul How was that contradicted?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Grievous could contend with RotS Kenobi. RotS Kenobi >>> ANH Kenobi, who stomped Maul.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul RotS Kenobi was able to beat him with relativity ease. Maul was stuck in the desert for who knows how long, and then Kenobi triggered him by using Qui-Gon's fighting stance.

Son of Dathomir Maul > Rebels Maul.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Maul has survived much worse than being in the desert for a long ass time. If I'm remembering correctly, he spent four days with no food or water just to build his lightsaber.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Also there's the thing of him being able to, you know, survive HORIZONTAL BISECTION.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul I know maul has survived much worse he is known for surviving being cut in half after all. But while Maul was stuck in the desert he was going even crazier than he already was and when it was time to fight Kenobi, he instantly went for a kill move and that allowed Kenobi to counter attack and strike him down.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Exactly, he got instantly slapped by Kenobi after something nowhere near as bad as the things he's gone through in the past, meanwhile a heavily hindered Grievous could actually contend with Kenobi.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul What do you mean heavily hindered Grievous? Canon Maul has also survived being cut in half and then going insane for 14 years. By the time of Rebels Maul was probably at his worst as three inquisitors were able to threaten him and he was beaten by a blind Kannan. Is blind Kanan now on the same level as Kenobi?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Grievous had his chestplate crushed by Mace Windu immediately before the events of Revenge of the Sith, which is why he was coughing all the time. Blind Kanan did not defeat Maul by Force power, try again. He let the Force take over his movements, which was actually how Kenobi beat Grievous.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Grievous was coughing up a storm in the 2008 Clone Wars which takes place before the Battle of Coruscant. Weather it was the Force or not Kannan still beat Maul, Kenobi beat Grievous in RotS by letting the Force take control of him but what about all the times in TCW where Kenobi effortless beats Grievous
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous "WHEtHER It wAS the FOrCE or nOt, kanaN sTIlL beaT MAUL" That's as bad as you saying Jaina Solo is stronger than Darth Caedus just because she beat him. Kanan did not beat Maul with his own power, it is irrelevant. And Kenobi beating Grievous in TCW is contradicted by Grievous slapping several Jedi Masters at once.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul I never said "Jaina was stronger than Jacen," I said Jaina held her own against Caedus and beat an injured Caedus who is > Jacen, Caedus > Jacen > Jaina. Kannan theoretically could let the Force take over at any moment, their we could use Force possessed Kannan in vs matches, and speaking of the Force, prove to me that Maul can't just use the Force on Grievous like he did in Son of Dathomir. TCW isn't contradicted by anything since it has always been canon meanwhile the 2003 Clone Wars was stated to be an exaggerated version of what canonically happened. Btw how powerful were those Jedi that Grievous beat here youtu.be/2Tp3yJRNp9k. We know that Shaak Ti and Kati Mundi were Councilmembers and Aayla was a Jedi Knight but what about the others like Shaa Gi (that's his canon name), and did I mention that he was using intimidation tactics to beat them. That's why they couldn't use the Force to crush him, shuch intimidation tactics won't work on Maul (as shown in Son of Dathormir).
show 71 replies
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 1. You have said Jaina > Jacen and you voted for Jaina over Jacen despite the mountain of evidence that explicitly says Jacen >>> Jaina.
2. Kanan being able to let the Force take over whenever he wants is irrelevant and only helps my case to the fact that Kanan is not > Maul.
3. Grievous has shown the ability to dodge Force attacks, and he's done so against beings stronger than Maul.
4. 2003 Clone Wars was never stated to be exaggerated at all, and is still in continuity so...
5. Shaak Ti is the second strongest member of the Jedi Council, excluding Yoda, Windu, and Anakin, so she's easily above Maul's level and Ki-Adi Mundi is very close to her in power. And intimidation means nothing towards the Force. Now, the actual reason they couldn't use the Force was because Grievous kept dodging their Force attacks. Even Ki-Adi, the second strongest of the Jedi there, wasn't able to hit Grievous.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 1:When have I said "Jaina > Jacen"
2: how is Kannan letting the Force take over irrelevant?
3: Grievous dodging Force attacks didn't help him in Son of Dathomir.
4: I thought Clone Wars 2003 was exaggerated because of what I was told.
5: I said I knew who a few of those Jedi were, Kati Mundi and Shaak Ti were also affected by Grievous' Intimidation tactics.
6: Maul held his own against Kenobi several times during the Clone Wars and always had better results than Grievous had when they fought.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 1. You literally voted for Jaina over Jacen.
2. Because it has nothing to do with anything, apart from proving that Maul > Kanan.
3. And? Doesn't mean he can't do it now.
4. So you took one person's statement and tried to pass it off as fact. That is a fat L right now.
5. Doesn't affect their Force power/ability.
6. And then Maul got clapped by ANH Kenobi while Grievous held his own against RotS Kenobi.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 1: I voted Jaina over Jedi Jacen not Caedus, Caedus would destroy Jaina, everyone should know that
2: Maul > Kannan > Ezra > Sabine. It was because of plot convenience that kannan beat Maul
3: I'm sure he can still do it but maul can tag him with the Force
4: okay I will give you that. But even if it was true Labyrinth of Evil also shows how power Grievous was and he didn't beat five Jedi masters their.
5: Maul was weaker in Rebels as shown when he can barely beat three inquirers. I'm pretty sure Kenobi beating Maul in Rebels was either an outlier or Maul was just much weaker in Rebels.
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous I read the books and they both suck boba could take them both but grevious is stronger and has trained to fight against the force read more books bro
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous Cough cough obi wan Anakin Talya
DJ
DJ_MARSHMELLO 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
General Grievous He went toe to toe with ahsoka and she beat vader
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 15 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Ahsoka and Maul's fight only lasted for a few seconds, Obi Wan destroyed Grievous every time they fought, Anakin and Grievous never fought not even in legends.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 1. Just like how everyone who actually read the books should know that even as Jedi, Jacen >>> Jaina.
2. Then you concede the point, Kanan is not superior to Maul.
3. Except more often than not, Grievous will dodge his attacks.
4. And? Grievous doesn't have to cleave through legions of Jedi Masters every single time he appears, he's already done so twice.
5. In what world would Kenobi beating Maul ever be an outlier when Kenobi is consistently > Maul?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 1: their is a battle page for this, can you talk about it their? And if Jedi Jacen >>> Jaina then how did Jaina hold her own against Ceadus and actually beat him at one point?
2: Kannan was never superior to Maul, ANYONE WITH A BRAIN WOULD KNOW THAT! Vader >>> Maul > Ahsoka > Kannan > Ezra.
3: except that Maul is more accurate and focused than most prequel area Jedi and therefore be able to land Force based attacks.
4: every time? Clone Wars season 4 Shadow Warrior, Darth Maul Son of Dathomir, Star Wars Ep3 Revenge of the Sith. Many of the masters he killed were fodder (with a few exceptions) and if they weren't Maul has killed Jedi masters to just not as many at once.
5: I never said "Kenobi beating Maul was an outlier" I said "Maul consistently gave Kenobi a good fight, so either admit Rebels Maul is weaker than Clone Wars Maul or admit that Kenobi beating Maul as fast as he did an outlier.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 1. Can you stop using such neanderthalic logic? Jaina held her own against a HEAVILY SUPPRESSED AND BADLY INJURED CAEDUS, and even then she was losing for most of the fight. She only won once Caedus got distracted. If you actually read the book, you would know this. Just like how if you actually read the books, you would know that it's stated several times that Jacen >>> Jaina. You should actually learn the character before you vote on anything with them.
2. Quoted directly from you, misspellings and all: "Weather it was the Force or not Kannan still beat Maul"
3. I know damn well you didn't just say Maul is more accurate than SHAAK TI and KI-ADI MUNDI.
4. Imagine thinking Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi Mundi and Aayla Secura are fodder. And no, Maul has never fought numerous Jedi Masters on the level of the ones Grievous has fought at the same time.
5. As quoted from you, again; "I'm pretty sure Kenobi beating Maul in Rebels was either an outlier or Maul was just much weaker in Rebels." So again, in what world is Maul losing to the same person he has consistently lost to an outlier? And there's absolutely nothing that implies Maul got weaker from TCW to Rebels. It took THREE Inquisitors (all of whom I remind you were trained by the Grand Inquisitor and/or Darth Vader) to merely contend with Maul. That is not a sign of weakness.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 1: Jacen vs Jaina has it's own page so if you want to whine about it go their, but let's finish this debate first.
2: I meant Kannan beat Maul and that's canon their were circumstances involved but Kannan still doges Maul and he fell off the ledge of the Sith Temple, that feat is an outlier.
3: Maul was more focused than they were and he has beaten Jedi masters so he might be close to their level. Fear really hinders a Jedi's use of the Force (that's why Darth Vader uses Intimidation tactics so often) while it just makes a Sith (or a Dark Side user) more powerful
4: They were fodder in the 2003 Clone Wars
5: I meant Maul loosing to Kenobi so quickly was an outlier when previously he consistently gave Kenobi a good fight and nearly beat him in the TCW episodes Rivals and the episode titled Revenge. The Grand Inquisitor is weak, Kanan and Ezra were able to hold their own against him and Kanan actually beat him. In the season one finale. Ahsoka effortless beat two of those inquisitors and Maul has help from her, Kanan (who has killed the Grand Inquisitor), and Ezra. If Darth Vader trained the Inquisitors then he would only of trained them as acolytes and nothing more.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 1. How about you just change your vote and go with what is factually said in the series?
2. THEN WHY DID YOU BRING IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE
3. Explain how Maul, who is consistently clapped by Obi-Wan, has more focus than Shaak Ti, who is arguably above Kenobi.
4. No, they weren't, you have no proof to support that.
5. That's not what you said in the first place. And no, the Grand Inquisitor is not weak. Not even close. The GI is stated by Word of God to be comparable to Asajj Ventress. And Kanan didn't kill the GI, the hell? He killed himself by jumping off the platform. Three roughly Asajj Ventress-level opponents are more than enough to pressure Maul.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 1: Jacen vs Jaina has its own battle page www.superherodb.com/battle/jacen-solo-vs-jaina-solo/40-254004/.
2: because Kanan did beat Maul and it's canon
3: Shaak Ti is normally more focused than Maul but Grievous was using intimidation tactics against all five of those Jedi to break their focus and it worked
4: most of what we know about those characters is from books that came out after the 2003 Clone Wars ended
5: Kanan beats the Grand Inquisitor here youtu.be/DyaIpbzNags. Even though he killed him self Kanan still beat him
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 1. Uh huh, change your vote now.
2. Make up your goddamn mind. It's either an outlier or canon, you can't have both.
3. Irrelevant, intimidation doesn't lessen Force ability. And Shaak Ti has faced Grievous more than once, so try again.
4. Not how it works, that is some serious Neanderthal logic. Just because the IRL content came out afterwards doesn't mean it happened afterwards in-universe, it's seriously idiotic to think that. Shaak Ti fought Grievous for a second time AT THE END OF THE CLONE WARS, LITERAL MINUTES BEFORE REVENGE OF THE SITH. And in the fight between Grievous and the Masters, they were relatively the same as they were at the end of the Clone Wars, and unless you have evidence against that, you concede the point.
5. An amped Kanan that was tapping into the dark side, and that doesn't change the fact that the GI is comparable to Ventress.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 1: youtu.be/WWaLxFIVX1s. youtu.be/Pw2sex1mJNI.
2
: it's an outlier in canon material, their that's my opinion on it.
3: fear dose lessen a Light Side user's focus and therefore make them more likely to slip up or make a reckless decision. That's why Dooku trained Grievous to use the element of fear and surprise. That brings be into my next point when the two fought on Corrsunt he unleashed four lightsabers and that was way to much for her.
4 : that stuff wasn't in mind when they wrote the show. And Grievous still has a surprise for them at that point, he could use four lightsabers and blitzed all of them
5: can the Grand Inquisitor hold his own against Mace Windu or beat General Grievous? I don't think so
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 1. Okay, so you're going to go against what was explicitly stated and showed in the series, like a child.
2. Uh huh, it's an outlier and therefore invalid.
3. FOCUS IS NOT THE SAME AS FORCE POWER AND ABILITY, NEXT.
4. Where's your proof of that claim?
5. Where's your proof of that claim?
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 1: I'll change my vote later
2: agreed
3: focuse is required to use the Force and fear tactics undermine a Jedi's focus, that is why Dooku taught Grievous intimidation tactics, but when going up against people who don't fear him like Kenobi their really wasn't much for him to fall back on.
4: those books were written after Clone Wars 2003 ended
5: Ventress has held her own against Mace Windu, and Mace Windu >>> Dark Side amped Kanan.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 3. Focus is required for Padawans. Master level combatants can casually use the Force without much focus. For example, AotC Kenobi casually mind manipulating the drug dealer. That required little to no focus whatsoever. Oh, also your entire argument is invalidated by the fact that Shaak Ti was very clearly focused on Grievous during their second fight, and in their first, as was Ki-Adi Mundi.
4. Not evidence, and I already explained why that logic is utterly stupid. Try again, with actual in series evidence.
5. Grand Inquisitor is said to be comparable to Ventress, so the thing you just said (with no evidence) is irrelevant. Try again with actual evidence. Also Ventress contending with Windu is PIS as she is consistently far beneath that level.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 3: focus is required for more powerful Force abilities, you know THE ONES THAT WOULD ACTUALLY HURT GRIEVOUS. If that weren't the case then why don't Jedi just use the Force on Grievous?
4: Grievous's intimidation tactics were working here youtu.be/WIj7gIDFDe4. And he surprised them by using 4 lightsaber youtu.be/64-3talVkUA. And when he was up close he blitzed them with 4 lightsabers and the Jedi stood no chance what so ever
5: Ventress only lost to Padawan Anakin when he used the Dark Side and before she was actually beating him, and don't even try to tell me that Dark Side Kanan is stronger than Dark Side Anakin.A
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 3. Ah yes, because SO much focus is required for a simple Force push. No. And I think you're missing the point. It's not that the Force doesn't work on Grievous, it very clearly does. It's that he's able to DODGE Force attacks. He's not a Yuuzhan Vong, he's not immune to the Force.
4. That's not proof of Grievous being able to blitz Ki-Adi, Shaak and Aayla all at once, show me Grievous with four sabers being able to blitz three top tier Master level combatants.
5. Grand Inquisitor still = Ventress.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 3: It dose require some amount of focus, that's why Force users don't just crush bounty hunters and using the force is very taxing on the user's energy that's why in TFU comic Starkiller was visibly exhausted after taking down a star destroyer or why Luke was visibly fatigued after trying to lift the x-wing
4: he kept them in close quarters so they wouldn't have time to use the Force without getting sliced up by one of his four Sabers. youtu.be/64-3talVkUA.
5: can the Grand Inquisitor hold his own against Obi-Wan Kenobi, contend with Dooku, or take down Jedi masters? Oh did I mention that much of the inquisitor's victories came from their unorthodox lightsabers and not their actual skill?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 3. Or that's because Jedi aren't psychopaths that just squish their enemies like paper balls. Also I know you aren't trying to compare a single Force push to REDIRECTING AN ENTIRE STAR DESTROYER or LIFTING A WHOLE-ASS X-WING.
4. Where's your proof of Grievous being able to destroy the Ki-Adi, Shaak and Aayla? Because showing what happened on Coruscant doesn't prove that.
5. Word of God still says Ventress = Grand Inquisitor.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 3: that's another reason Jedi don't use the Force to crush Grievous, Grievous can dodge/withstand simple force pushes as shown in the 2003 Clone Wars. And no I'm not trying to compare force pushes to taking down a star destroyer, but it shows that extensive use of the Force takes a lot of energy.
4: he blitzes both of them with two lightsabers youtu.be/WIj7gIDFDe4.
5: I know you didn't just say "the word of god says Ventress = Inquisitor" prove it don't make stuff up.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 3. Except a simple Force push, the most useful in a fight, is not extensive use of the Force, so your point is invalid.
4. Now explain how that proves you making up that they somehow went from fodder when Grievous first fought them to Master level by the end of the Clone Wars.
5. You telling anyone not to make stuff up is just hypocritical, considering you have done so numerous times. And it was an interview with Dave Filoni, that is backed up by actual feats.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 3: Grievous can either dodge it, or take it his armor can withstand a push or two as shown in the 2003 Clone Wars, either that or you prove me right as in Maul could just do that to Grievous like he did in *coughs Son of Dathomir.
4: Grievous only beat them by surprisingly jumping in and keeping up close and personal with his lightsabers. If they had enough time to concentrate and use the Force, he would have been dead.
5: I use interviews with Dave Filoni to so I can't really blame you. Can you link me to the video where he says the Grand Inquisitor is on the same level as Asajj Ventress and while you're at it can you also tell me what feats the Inquistor has that put him on that level?
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 3. Grievous is capable of dodging it. Son of Dathomir is Disney exclusive. This fight is not Disney exclusive. So either you say Maul > Shaak Ti, Ki-Adi Mundi and Aayla Secura, or you accept the fact that Grievous can dodge Maul's attacks.
4. That doesn't explain your claim of them being fodder at the beginning of the Clone Wars, try again.
5. During TCW, TGI was one of the Temple Guards. The Temple Guards are all easily Knight, low Master level and Barriss Offee (who at that point was so comparable to Ventress that Ahsoka thought she was Ventress) felt the need to run from them. I'll link the interview in a little while, I have tutoring to do, so I can't find it right now.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 3: Okay Grievous can dodge Maul's attacks, I never said he couldn't
4: I take it back
5: if the Temple Guards were low master level then how were Kanan and Ezra able to hold their own against him? barris felt the need to run from them because she was outnumbered 6 to one. Barris isn't even that comparable to Ventress, she only beat Ahsoka in the episode To Catch a Jedi because A: Ahsoka went a few days without food or water, B: she was in an area that she wasn't familiar with, C: she didn't have her shotto (which she was very dependent on), and D: because Barris knew Ahsoka's fighting style and she didn't know her's. And Asajj Ventress did beat her master Luminara.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 3. You claimed Maul would be able to land attacks on Grievous better than beings far stronger and more skilled than Maul.
5. You do realize Kanan and Ezra are both inferior to TGI, right? And they had to work together to contend with TGI, Kanan only defeated him by letting the Force take over, which should be clear by the quote he delivered to TGI prior to beating him. Also Ahsoka, who knows Ventress' power, was still convinced that Barriss was Ventress. That shows that Barriss is comparable to Ventress. And as for the Dave Filoni interview, it's one of three. This one: m.youtube.com/watch?v=guv0tGVOdN8
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous This one: m.youtube.com/watch?v=hcNXPNXOv2A
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Or this one: m.youtube.com/watch?v=rBKQfbN7Vaw
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 3 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul 3: The one reason I think he can do that is because fear and intimidation tactics would have a lot less of an effect on Maul who was trained to resist such tactics
4: Kanan ahd Ezra should be infinitely inferior to the Inquisitor assuming he was a Jedi temple guard. Kanan letting the Force take over is a plot device so he can beat people without Ahsoka having to save him, but that doesn't change the fact that in Rebels episodes "Rise of the Old Master" Ezra is able to block multiple attacks from the Inquisitor and Kanan was able to telekinetically grab him youtu.be/BT6Sd0qfR-Y. Would he be able to do that to Asajj Ventress who matched Luminara in an arm wrestle with the Force? Also last time Ahsoka fought Ventress was in season one which was two years prior, and Ventress grown much stronger since then.
LordTracer
LordTracer 3 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous 3. And I explained why that wouldn't matter because fear and intimidation tactics clearly didn't work on the Jedi Masters that were still able to send Force pushes at Grievous. He was simply able to dodge them, because he is too fast.
4. Blocking someone's strikes does not mean one is on par with them, so that means nothing. And considering that Filoni said TGI and Ventress were comparable, yes Kanan would be able to do that to Ventress as well. Also in the same episode where Ahsoka and Barriss fought, Ahsoka had been around Ventress, so...
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 25 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul I'm back to clear up a few things.

"Maul has survived much worse than being in the desert for a few days"

My rebuttal: that was when he was young and in his prime, Maul was like 60 by the time of Rebels and his "old wounds" were catching up on him. I mean try throwing a 50 year old in the desert without water and do the same to a prime human and see who lives longer.

If fear didn't effect a Jedi's use of The Force then why dose ever character who specializes in killing Jedi uses intimidation to undermine a users force powers? I highly doubt Ahsoka, Shaak Ti, Plo Koon etc were explicitly trained to resist fear tactics, mind you the republic was at peace for the last thousand years so why would every Jedi need to resist fear tactics if only the high tier ones left the temple? Maul on the other hand has been trained by Palpatine himself to resist fear tactics.

Shaak Ti and Ka Adi Mundi were fodder because all they did was get slapped around. Remember Jedi Master is just a title it's irrelevant to the users actual power this is best shown in the Obi-Wan and Anakin comic where Kenobi compares Anakin's speed to that of Jedi masters do Shaak Ti and Ka Adi Mundi have any feats that put them on a high level? If not then Maul might very well indeed be on their level.

I'm using Clone Wars Maul for this so please quit forcing me to use Rebels Maul ie one of the weakest versions of Maul.

GI isn't on Ventress' level, if he was then how was season 1 Ezra able to block attacks. And I KNOW you're not trying to imply that a Dark Side Kanan is anywhere near Dark Side Anakin level.

When the last time Ahsoka fought Ventress before her fight with Barris was early on in the Clone War, Ventress did grow over the course of the war this is best shown when she lost to a padawan Anakin shortly after joining Dooku to being able to hold her own against Mace Windu and a bunch of other high tier Jedi at the same time.
Last edited: 1 mo 21 d ago.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Are we gonna finish this debate @LordTracer?
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Not the same thing, Maul is a superhumanly strong Zabrak that can use the Force to sustain himself. He should be perfectly capable of surviving in a goddamn desert.

And the Dark Jedi are supposed to know Jedi resist that stuff how? Once again, fear tactics clearly don't affect Jedi Masters considering that they were still perfectly capable of fighting against Grievous and using their Force attacks.

You actually have no idea what you're talking about if you think Ki-Adi Mundi and Shaak Ti are fodder. Shaak Ti is arguably the strongest member of the Jedi Council apart from Yoda, Windu and Anakin. Ki-Adi Mundi is somewhat relative to her in power.

You haven't proven Rebels Maul is any weaker than TCW Maul.

Dave Filoni says TGI is on Ventress' level, next. Anakin/Vader isn't relevant to this discussion at all, why are you speaking about him.

You're ignoring that Ahsoka was around Ventress prior to her fight with Barriss and would know how strong Ventress is at that point. And I've already explained how Ventress contending with Windu is an outlier.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Yeah but he was going insane and probably couldn't use his Force powers to there fullest potential, couple in the fact that he was already old and past his prime and it makes sense why he couldn't survive that long on a planet that was constantly getting blasted by two stars.

Okay, fear doesn't affect force users that much, but shock and surprise would definitely break the focus and not allow them to think about all there options.

Do Shaak Ti and Kai Adi Mundi have any feats as duelists that put them on an impressive level?

TCW Maul was able to kill dozens of Jedi Masters, consistently give prime Kenobi a good fight and was able defeat General Grievous and his bodyguards in Son of Dathomir, and before you say "TCW Grievous is weak" let me tell you something: Star Wars Age of Republic: General Grievous, read it.

I agree that their roles and origin stories are comparable but if he thinks the Inquisitor is as strong as Ventress then he clearly doesn't know much about Ventress (remember George Lucas created the characters of Ventress for the Star Wars Republic sires and 2003 Clone Wars so please don't assume I have an ego because I'm going against what the writers said and saying that I'm right, remember Dave Filoni also said that Rebels Vader was Vader in his prime which contradicts every other source that says that RotJ was Vader's prime). I brought up Anakin because the Inquisitor lost to a Dark Side amped Kanan while Ventress nearly killed a Dark Side amped Anakin in Star Wars Republic #71.

Just being around someone doesn't automatically mean you know how well they can't fight for example: I could hang out with Mike Tyson for a day, that doesn't mean I know how he fights. Ventress can consistently break through Kenobi's Force wall and gave a Dark Side amped Anakin his scar after nearly defeating him, both Kenobi and Anakin are comparable to Mace and Ventress lost to Mace which means it's NOT an outlier.
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Insanity doesn't prevent one from using their Force abilities to their fullest extent. Darth Sidious and Joruus C'Baoth are testaments to this. You can't use age as reasoning because Maul's age in Disney continuity is unknown. Maul's survived being horizontally bisected, some time in the desert is nothing.

Ki-Adi Mundi was completely focused when he tried to Force push Grievous, yet Grievous was still able to dodge his attack.

I don't see why dueling skill matters when I'm talking about Force power.

TCW Grievous is still consistently shown to be fodder. And that doesn't prove Maul got weaker from TCW to Rebels.

You do realize Dave Filoni worked on TCW, right? He knows about Ventress, he said TGI = Ventress, nothing explicitly contradicts that (like how Rebels Vader being Prime Vader is explicitly contradicted). Also Anakin won that fight against Ventress. And that was Anakin before any events in TCW.

I'm sorry, are you a Force wielder capable of sensing someone's power and knowing how strong they are after they displayed their strength? Didn't think so. Kenobi isn't comparable to Mace in Force power, he's only comparable in dueling skill. Anakin defeated Ventress, and all Ventress could do was give him a scar. And that was a pre-TCW Anakin. RotS Anakin is the one that's comparable to Mace. So again, Ventress contending with Mace is an outlier.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Palpatine's insanity wasn't the same thing as Maul's, Maul wasn't able to use his abilities because all he could think about was killing Obi-Wan Kenobi, since Palpatine wasn't always thinking about one thing (like killing Kenobi) he could use his abilities to their fullest potential and became the greatest Sith because of that. Let's assume Maul is in his late teens by the time of TPM, then by the time of Rebels he's like 50 which brings me back to my prime human vs 50 year old war veteran whose "old wounds" are catching up with him analogy. "Maul has survived being cut in half" my rebuttal to that: That. Was. Because. He. Was. Young. And. In. His. Physical. Prime.

That's because he predicted it and then dodged it, and I'm still not seeing feats for Ki-Adi.

Do Ki-Adi Mundi and Shaak Ti have feats that put them on a high tier period?

He isn't really as fodder as people say he is, everything that happened to him in the episode Lair of Grievous was LONG before his prime meaning that you can't use those feats to lowball him, he was able to beat Eath Koth (who was a threat to Vader), he slaughtered the Nightsister Clan _TCW season 4 EP Massacre, he was able to hold his own against Kenobi on multiple occasions, and the only reason Ahsoka could threaten him was because Grievous was just toying with her. But even if you still think he's fodder then remember that he's only fodder in the show but not in the surrounding lore, Star Wars Age of Republic: General Grievous, RotS novel, Maul Son of Dathomir please read them and then try to argue that he's still fodder. How is TCW Maul consistently holding his own against prime Kenobi not evidence that he's stronger than Rebels Maul?

"there's nothing that contradicts the GI being equal to Ventress"

Other than the feats unless you're trying to say that Kanan and Ezra are on the same level as Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Oops, I forgot about that ability. Uh, i'm not sure if you're aware that in the Clone Wars Multi Media Project Anakin became a Jedi Knight two years and six months after the Clone War began in 20 BBY, meaning that Ventress defeated near prime Anakin, (if you read the comic you'd know that she was toying with him) and gave him his scar instead of killing him because of that Anakin went crazy and rag dolled Ventress with The Force. Ventress has held her own against Kenobi as a duelist and also held her own against Dooku on multiple occasions. So keeping up with Mace is not an outlier.
Last edited: 1 mo 21 d ago.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul ...
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous You completely ignored how Joruus C'Baoth was insane yet still extremely effective. Fifty years old is not that old, especially when we are talking about Force wielders.

Uh, no. Ki-Adi Force pushed at Grievous, Grievous stood there and looked at him do so, and then dodged it. He didn't predict anything.

Shaak Ti created a light side nexus by her presence alone, she is stated time and time again to be one of the most powerful Jedi on the council, Obi-Wan though Shaak would be skilled enough to contend with Sidious, she is noted to be a peer of Count Dooku in terms of dueling skill and there are several other things that show how powerful she is. Ki-Adi Mundi is relative to Shaak Ti.

Eeth Koth was a threat to PRE-ANH Vader only with a dark side amp, so that feat doesn't mean much. The Nightsister clan are not high level Force wielders so that's not impressive either. Literally the only thing you gave of TCW Grievous that's impressive is him contending with Kenobi, that doesn't change the multitudes of low showings he has, such as (as you've brought up before) getting beaten by Gungans. Kenobi's prime is in RotS, not TCW. And what exactly makes you think Rebels Kenobi is weaker than TCW Kenobi? The fact that he bodied Maul with more ease than he's ever done before should show the opposite.

Except you're ignoring all the context and that's not an explicit contradiction it's just you thinking Kanan and Ezra can't be that strong.

Anakin's prime was RotS, he very clearly got vastly stronger in the one year before RotS, as TCW Anakin consistently stalemated Dooku but RotS Anakin bodied Dooku. Meanwhile Ventress could only land a single hit on a pre-TCW Anakin. Ventress needed help for Dooku, and RotS Kenobi was the one relative to Mace (in dueling only), not TCW Kenobi. Even if the Kenobi feat was allowed, two feats doesn't make it a non-outlier. Consistent feats say Ventress isn't Mace level.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Because I had no reason to go over it after explaining how Maul's insanity was different from Palpatine's andJoruus C'Baoth.

Okay I didn't remember the scene correctly, but in a later part of the 2003 Clone Wars we see Grievous getting tagged by a Force push from Shaak Ti meaning that Maul could land a force push or two on him. How would "Obi-Wan though Shaak would be skilled enough to contend with Sidious?" And you do realize that the Prequel era Jedi weren't that impressive especially not when compared to the Old Republic or similar eras.

when did she create a light side nexus? *she was a peer to Jedi Dooku who isn't as powerful or experienced as Darth Tyrannus.

You yourself said that Rebels Kenobi was weaker that TCW Kenobi in this debate, but my evidence that Rebels Kenobi is weaker than TCW Kenobi is that A: Kenobi was very inactive after RotS meaning that he hasn't been doing much for 17 years at that point, 2: Rebels Kenobi is old this is best shown in the one of the novels (I can't remember if it was the Kenobi novel or the "From a Certain Point of View" novel where Kenobi describe some self is getting old and his injuries from the Clone Wars are catching up to him. Now please prove that Rebels Kenobi is stronger than TCW Kenobi and explains how that "should show the opposite."

Okay TCW Grievous is for the most part fodder, no one's going to argue with that.

How am ignoring the context to that? I literally said "Dark Side amped Kanan."

You do realize that most of those feats took place mear months before RotS meaning that Anakin and Obi-Wan couldn't have gotten too much stronger between TCW and RotS unless you're implying that Star Wars characters can now magically level up like how Dragon Ball characters do and if that's the case then I say to you please quit assuming these characters magically leveled up just to lowball a slightly weaker version of them like you did in our last Anakin vs Luke debate (which you still haven't responded to). In the RotS novel it's implied that Dooku was instructed to test Anakin not beat him and Anakin only beat Dooku via use of the Dark Side. "She needed help against Dooku" Savage Opress is dumb as rocks, and didn't do much during that fight other than get blasted by Forcd Lightning meaning that Ventress held her own against Dooku for a good chunk of the fight by herself. "Ventress could only land one hit on Anakin" boy, If you read the comic you'd know that she was about to kill Anakin but because she got arrogant, she gave Anakin his scar and then got bodied by him. Ventress was never a Mace level, if you read Jedi Mace Windu then you'd know that Ventress lost the fight and barely escaped with her own life. In all honesty saying the Mace Windu feat is an outlier is like saying Luke beating Vader is an outlier or saying Obi-Wan beating Anakin is an outlier.
Last edited: 1 mo 21 d ago.
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous You didn't prove that Maul's insanity was different than C'Baoth's insanity.

Maul is not as skilled as Shaak Ti, so no. And Shaak Ti was explicitly stated by Kenobi to skilled enough to contend with Sidious, which he admitted in Labyrinth of Evil. And the Old Republic era is completely irrelevant here.

The Force Unleashed novelization said Shaak Ti not only countered the dark side that covered the planet but made it a beacon of the light side. And no, Shaak Ti is a peer of RotS Dooku in dueling skill, as said in the Revenge of the Sith novelization.

Age. Is. Not. Valid. Evidence. For. Force. Wielders. Age barely even affects light siders, it certainly doesn't lessen their Force ability that much. And Rebels Kenobi bodying Rebels Maul, who you have not proven to be weaker than TCW Maul, proves Rebels Kenobi > TCW Kenobi as TCW Kenobi is only slightly superior to TCW Maul and not capable of utterly stomping him.

You've literally been arguing that he's not fodder but whatever.

You're ignoring the context to Ventress contending with Anakin, as all she was able to do was land a single hit and Anakin proceeded to body her with telekinesis. Anakin is clearly superior to Ventress in Force power, amped Kanan would not be relative to him in the slightest.

I have proven that they can gain vast amounts of strength in small periods of time. You're the one who's assuming they can't do that, despite it being clearly shown that they can. And I know you don't expect me to remember where that debate is happening, especially after you've already conceded in the past. If Dooku was just testing Anakin, that would imply he wasn't going all out, which means he wouldn't have gotten absolutely godstomped. Anakin did not have a massive amp when he slapped Dooku, hell, he probably didn't even have an amp at all. Nothing implies he was amped, Anakin just bodied Dooku.

Yeah, rewatch that fight. Ventress was on the ground more than Savage was, and Savage was performing better than Ventress was. And Ventress was getting an anger amp as the fight dragged on, meanwhile Dooku looked casual as hell. She's not on par with Dooku, she's not even close.

I literally did read it, Ventress got bodied when Anakin used telekinesis. She landed a single hit, and that's all she could do. It wasn't even a major hit.

YOU'VE BEEN ARGUING THAT SHE'S MACE LEVEL. The Mace feat is very clearly an outlier because Ventress is consistently overpowered by beings weaker or on par with Mace. Luke v. Vader isn't an outlier because there's no lesser feats to compare RotJ Luke to and Kenobi beating Vader is an outlier because Kenobi is explicitly portrayed as weaker than Anakin, as seen in the Dooku fight.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Because. I. Didn't. Need. To. But assuming I do, Maul could only think about finding and killing Kenobi while C'Baoth wasn't hindered by the same mental block of only being able to think about one thing.

Yet then she struggled against Grievous' guards the same guards that Season 1 Ahsoka can beat while carrying a baby Hutt on her back. And assuming it's relevant, Maul has kept up with Palpatine too.

Did it ever occur to you that by the time of TFU novel Shaak Ti might be more powerful given that she pretty much had two decades to study and learn about The Force? If she's comparable to Dooku then why dose she struggle against Grievous' guards and get utterly one-shotted by Grievous? Remember Dooku > Grievous.

If Force users didn't age then what was Kenobi going through in that book and why did Kenobi look three times older in ANH compared to when we last saw him in RotS if age doesn't effect Force users as much?

She. Did. Beat. Anakin, if you've read the comic like you claim you have then you'll know that Ventress said "I could've taken your head off that time boy but before I do I just wanted you to know I could" then she starts monologuing and that's when Anakin slips into a Force rage and pummels her with The Force. "Kanan won't be comparable to Anakin in the slightest" at least we agree on something @LordTracer.

Okay, I concede on that but didn't Anakin need the Dark Side to beat Dooku?

"Savage was performing better than Ventress was" I'm pretty sure you mean Ventress was doing better after all she was holding her own against Dooku in a lightsaber duel while Savage was just getting slapped around. "Ventress was getting an anger amp as the fight dragged on" you mean like how she dose in all her fights which is best implied by the way she jumps in screaming?

I never said Ventress was Windu level, I said Ventress is COMPARABLE to him. And remember Mace always start his flights conserved because he's a smart fighter, and when Mace finally switched on the Vaapad, she was toast and had to make a run for it.
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 21 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Except you did, because you think insanity is a weakness for some reason (and the Sith consistently prove this wrong). And what you're describing is single-mindedness. Not insanity. And single-mindedness is not always a weakness (*cough cough Darth Plagueis cough cough*).

That one anti-feat doesn't override the numerous accolades Shaak Ti has. And Maul was getting bodied by a casual and toying around Sidious, even with the help of Savage.

Ah yes, because she's definitely going to be able to study and learn on a planet inhabited only by semi-sentient creatures. Already explained how Grievous' guards are an anti-feat that is invalid and Grievous has never one-shot Shaak Ti.

I did not say Force wielders do not age. I said age is not a weakness for Force wielders. And Kenobi only looked vastly older due to being under Tatooine's twin suns for a long ass time.

SHE LITERALLY LOST. Anakin ragdolled her ass with the Force after she was only able to land a single blow on Anakin. That is a loss for Ventress.

Nothing even implies that he needed it, so no. The only time he's implied to have used the dark side throughout the entire battle of Coruscant is when he killed Dooku.

Savage was doing a better job of matching Dooku in a duel than Ventress was. And again, Dooku was causal the whole time and was still bodying Ventress.

Yeah, here's the thing though, SHE'S NOT COMPARABLE. You just admitted Mace was suppressed and when he actually went all-out she got bodied.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 20 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Sorry for misunderstanding me, what I meant was A: because Maul was going insane, all he could think about was finding Kenobi and because of this he couldn't use his Force powers to their fullest potential. Any questions?

You mean one of Shaak Ti's only combative feats doesn't override any of those statements? And Palpatine had to have been putting quite a bit of effort into his fight with Maul because even though he likes the toy with his adversaries Maul and the Death Watch were a big enough threat that he personally felt obliged to deal with it by himself.

No, what I meant is that she were probably meditated on The Force like how all Jedi do and if do you think Jedi and Sith can magically level up in a few months just to prove points from non canon magazines IE Vader being 80% as fast as Palpatine then imagine how powerful Shaak Ti could get with 16 years to meditate on The Force.

Whatever the reason is for why he looked vastly older remember his physical abilities were also waning that and his levels of inactivity should be decent evidence that Rebels Kenobi is weaker than TCW Kenobi.

SHE. ONLY. CHOSE. TO. LAND. ONE. HIT. QUIT. SAYING. THAT. SHE. COULD. "ONLY." LAND. ONE. HIT.

Actually there were a few other things imply he use the Dark Side. First was after Dooku dropped a bridge on Kenobi, Anakin got up and rushed him down the RotS novel describes Anakin's attacks as they were meteors, second: Dooku told used Dun Moch to trigger Anakin by saying "I sense much fear in you young Skywalker, you have hate, you have anger, but you don't use them" and then Anakin made an angry face and started pounding on him with attacks are comparable to meteors as described in the RotS novel. And third: in one of the RotS comics Anakin used a very brutal Force Push to knock Dooku off the platform and then started doing much better against him. There a ton of evidence that implies that he used the Dark Side.


"Savage was doing a better job of matching Dooku in a duel than Ventress was"

How exactly? And Dooku was visibly putting effort into it meaning that he wasn't as casual as you're making them out to be.
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 20 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous You still haven't proven that things work like that. You haven't proven that would be a weakness to Maul.

Considering that it's an anti-feat that contradicts several accolades given by characters that would know how strong Shaak Ti is, yes, the feat is invalid. Sidious was not trying at all against Maul and Savage, unless you think Maul + Savage would be relative to Windu or something. Sidious deciding to deal with them himself doesn't mean he wasn't holding back.

There's no evidence to suggest that Shaak Ti got stronger, like there is with TCW Anakin => RotS Anakin or TESB Vader => RotJ Vader.

No, it's not enough evidence. Tatooine's suns causing artificial aging is not enough to say TCW Kenobi is superior to Rebels Kenobi. Especially when feats clearly show the opposite.

SHE LITERALLY ONLY LANDED A SINGLE HIT. You're basically implying she was suppressed, which begs the question of why she was unable to go to full power and overwhelm Anakin. The fact that she was unable to do so shows that Anakin is very clearly superior to her.

None of that implies he used the dark side in any way, you're just grasping at straws. Anakin's attacks being described as meteors implies LITERALLY NOTHING about the dark side, it simply explains Anakin's power. Making an angry face does not mean one is using the dark side, that's absolutely asinine. By that logic, when Luke was shooting at the Stormtroopers after Kenobi got killed, he was using the dark side. Anakin performing well against Dooku is not evidence of him using the dark side, it just shows that RotS Anakin >>> Dooku.

Savage actually held his own longer and managed to disarm Dooku while Ventress was getting kicked to the ground and she later got finessed by Dooku without his lightsaber. And Dooku was not visibly putting effort into it, he was casual the whole time, even when he didn't have his lightsaber and was dodging Ventress like she was nothing.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 19 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Don't you need to think to use The Force? And since all Maul could think about was finding and killing Kenobi, ah yeah of course he couldn't sustain himself with The Force. Let me know if you get what I'm getting at. How would it not be a weakness to Maul?

Has Obi-Wan ever seen Palpatine fight or have anyway of knowing how skilled of a fighter Palpatine was? Maul and Opress working together (like they were against Palpatine) would have to be a somewhat threat to Windu and too say "Palpatine wasn't even trying" is just a lowball when it's clear that he showed some struggle especially when Maul whipped out the Darksaber.

Evidence that Shaak Ti got stronger after RotS: Clone Wars era Shaak Ti gets slapped around by Grievous' bodyguards and gets blindsighted by during Order 66 while TFU Shaak Ti can give Starkiller (Who is somewhat comparable to Vader) a long marathon fight.

I know you didn't just say "TCW Anakin => RotS Anakin and TESB Vader => RotJ Vader"

Why are we even debating this point? Do you actually think that Kenobi nearing his prime would be stronger than Old Ben Kenobi who's been stated by multiple sources to be far past his prime? And what feats put Rebels Kenobi above TCW Kenobi?

Im not saying she was suppressed, if you read the comic you'd know A: she saw an opening in Anakin's guard, B: she could have killed Anakin, she had practically won but CHOSE not to because she wanted Anakin to know that she could have killed him.

Before Anakin got triggered his attacks weren't comparable to meteors and afterwards they were, George Lucas often uses angry expressions to show a character (usually a good guy) is using the Dark Side, and don't even think about "Luke using the Dark Side" because A: Luke at that point had very little knowledge of The Force and absolutely no ability to use it and B: he was killing stormtroopers LONG before Kenobi died so no there is literally no freaking reason to think Luke was using the Dark Side and now YOU are the one grasping at straws.

You mean Ventress fought Dooku for like twice as long as Savage was, Dooku was just casually dodging Savage's attacks, after Savage disarmed him he was visibly putting much more effort into his fight with the Dathomorians, and Ventress was still holding her own against Dooku after Savage went crazy and betrayed them both? If Dooku wanted Ventress dead (which he clearly did) and he was just casual with her then he would've finished her in seconds, but he didn't which implies that she was giving him a somewhat hard time. And by the time of Dark Disciple she was clearly able to pose a threat to Dooku.

And one thing I forgot to bring up was as far as I've seen Dave Filoni never said the Inquisitor was equal to Ventress, he said they were similar which they are but they are clearly not equals in power unless you can give feats for the GI that prove that he's on the same level as Ventress, Dave Filoni also said "if the GI ran into someone like Kenobi he'd need help" and Ventress has slapped around Kenobi so please take an L on this. This is a prime example of you twisting quotes from the authors in order too make infactual statements to overrate your favorite characters while downplaying your least favorite characters. And here's the evidence that Rebels Maul is weaker than TCW Maul: Rebels Maul was slapped by a post prime Kenobi while TCW Maul can hold his own against near prime Kenobi, Rebels Maul was also slapped by a blind Kanan Jarrus while TCW Maul was able to beat multiple Jedi during his career.
Last edited: 1 mo 14 d ago.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul ...
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 14 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul ...
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul ...
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul *imagine ignoring my reply here and not finishing this debate*
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Okay, you arrogant little child, I wasn't even aware that you replied. So how about you just be silent.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul Okay, BTY I've changed my vote on the Caedus vs Jaina battle.
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous Nope. Not all beings need to do so. Insanity is not a weakness. Especially not for a dark sider like Maul, nothing even implies that he'd be hindered by insanity.

Kenobi would know Sidious is at least on the level of Yoda, as Sidious did cause the dark side shroud that was clouding all of the Jedi's judgement, and he would also know Sidious is vastly superior to Dooku. Maul and Opress would not be a threat to Mace, Sidious was very clearly not trying at all. He was smiling and laughing throughout the fight and treating the brothers like they were nothing. Because they are nothing.

Yes, the MagnaGuards that are relative to RotS Kenobi, because that somehow discounts Shaak Ti's power... Starkiller is comparable to pre-ANH Vader, who is vastly weaker then RotS Vader. That's not proof of her getting stronger over time.

Those are arrows, not indications of power. Doing "=>" is not even how you're supposed to indicate power, you do "= Ventress, so no. Also I find it funny how you're calling bias when I like Ventress more than the Grand Inquisitor. Hell, I don't even like the Grand Inquisitor at all. Also I never twist quotes, you have zero proof of that ever being the case. You're using both the proof by example and denying the antecedent fallacies, for your argument to work you would have to assume TCW Kenobi > Rebels Kenobi when there's nothing that implies that being the case and feats heavily disagree with that idea.
Dark_Wing
Dark_Wing 1 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
Darth Maul It would only be a weakness if all Maul could think about was killing Kenobi and didn't think to sustain himself.

"as Sidious did cause the dark side shroud that was clouding all of the Jedi's judgement" just because he caused a shroud doesn't automatically mean he's Yoda level because none of the Jedi in the Clone Wars era had anyway of resisting that ability. And causing a shroud also doesn't translate to dueling abilities, which is what Kenobi said "Shaak Ti could take Sidious in a duel" by the way that Dark Side shroud was clearly clouding Kenobi's judgement.

You mean RotS Kenobi was able to effortlessly slaughter multiple Magnaguards in the beginning of the movie? "Starkiller is comparable to Pre ANH Vader" isn't Pre ANH Vader the Version of Vader that Starkiller overpowered in a far fight?

"Sidious was very clearly not trying at all. He was smiling and laughing throughout the fight" bruh, Palpatine ALWAYS dose that heck he was laughing and smiling during his fight with Yoda, was he now not trying against Yoda?

"Those are arrows, not indications of power. Doing "=>" is not even how you're supposed to indicate power" oh, sorry about that.

"Also I never twist quotes, you have zero proof of that ever being the case" actually I have a Wikipedia page of proof that you do that: A: you assume because Dr Strange said "no one can stop him" that Dormammu can beat the Living Tribunal. B: you assume Vader is 80% as fast as Palpatine when the feats clearly disagree, Vader is an 80% of the emperor in everything he's more durable than Palpatine able to take hits from blasters, survive tons of crap falling on him during his fight with Starkiller, and has taken hits from lightsabers on more than one occasion, so he's clearly more than 80% Palpatine's durability. C: Dave Filoni said the GI was like Ventress not equal to her he also said the Inquisitor would need help to take down Kenobi someone Ventress has held her own against, now prove with feats that the Inquisitor is = Ventress.

"feats heavily disagree with that idea" you mean him slapping around a weaker version of Maul now proves that Rebels Kenobi is > TCW Kenobi? If you want proof that Rebels Maul is weaker then A: he took on three inquisitors with help from Kanan (whose defeated the Grand Inquisitor) Ahsoka (Who can solo two of them with ease), and no the inquisitors aren't Ventress level, we know this because Ahsoka could effortlessly solo both of them and Dave Filoni said on Rebels Recon that she wasn't even trying which would mean that she is at least three times as powerful as Ventress which is clearly not the case. And B: he got defeated by a blind Kanan.
LordTracer
LordTracer 1 mo 13 d
General Grievous vs Darth Maul
2 year member
General Grievous F***in' hell, I do not have the patience right now to read through that bible and make another bible in response.

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