Any relevant dc god tier plays ping pong with the fodder verse,DC dwarfs marvel in both cosmology and hax,heck their god tiers are casually held back by pshyic based attacks,while dc god tiers plays with concepts like toys,also unlike Marvel,DC has boundless platonic concepts (endless for ex.) Marvel concepts are aristotelian, a.k.a fodder,lol their supreme being lost a huge part of its power and lost his authority because of a multi dimensional crisis.inb4 AOO isn't toaa,which is nonsense since toaa's description and AOO's description is same,they were both stated to be creator of the verse and master of LT and "above all others" was said multiple times here for ex. they are treated as same,both were called AOO,both were stated to be creator,both were stated to be the master of LT yet they are diffrent because fans can't accept,yeh sure and infinity is canon,when there are literal references to canon series (LT fighting beyonders) and nothing says otherwise,even if you ignore this dc still blinks due to inconceivable diffrence in cosmology,GG
The fact that DC ''plays'' with concepts or use more elegent/complex words doesn't mean in Marvel they don't do so or their cosmology isn't that impressive.
Yes DC plays with concepts, there are sentient platonic concepts in dc a.k.a endless such concepts does not exists in Marvel,their concepts are aristotelian,and endless aren't even in top 10,Lucifer who isn't in top 5 can oneshot all of endless,Heck pre retcon Beyonder a so called god tier was held back when some random spaceships was firing him pshycal energy blasts he needed a large portion of his power in order to make a poison to kill death,death only governed the deaths of beings inside a baseline sized Multiverse by that time,he can't even effect aristotelian concepts directly,this dude was stated to be millions of times stronger than 90% of abstracts,Dc god tiers on the other hand can play pinball with sentient platonic concepts.
Dc cosmology is in top 3 in all fiction,they have way more layers and more impressive dimensions overall,Marvel cosmology is fodder like rest of their verse.
Based on the fact that TOAA is the embodiment of all the writers, editors, cartoonists, translators and everyone who works at Marvel on comics, HoI is second to TOAA and that's where he resides.
I expected that argument, The author of Lucifer said that Lucifer is not bound by the infinite page.
Dream of the Endless is also a Neil Gaiman autosert and contains stories within his library (it even contains all of Lovecraft's cosmology)
@UNKNOWN_ How is that a ''useless'' concept and what else could surpass that scale? I've seen many use the same argument in The Writer's favor and I don't see you complaining about it.
@UNKNOWN Lmao that's Above All Others (a TOAA's avatar) who isn't even close to him and that was why I asked you for scans, because I knew they didn't exist unless today you continue to confuse AAO with TOAA.
@pedro You can explain to me even the first time you have told me about it to say ''how many times do I have to explain you''? and omnipotent is a bad term used in comics.
@UNKNOWN Above All Others takes on multiple forms when we see him, yet he is never portrayed as the actual writer himself. The issue enlies, with the fact that The One Above All, is portrayed as the writer.
The truth is, I find it a bit boring to talk about something that was debunked a long time ago (TOAA and AAO being the same) and that scan doesn't quite clarify anything, TOAA is still the representation of all writers and has been stated several times, statements > a writer opinion.
Yes, I gonna to, because as I said, I've debated the same thing several times and to repeat what I once said I prefer that you go to the page yourself and realize it.
All those proofs and scans that you ask me are here.
Cuz that isn't the exactly page where I did debate.
Oh they were, you asked me for proofs of AAO not being the same as TOAA, well this isn't an exactly statement but means a lot
Also TOAA has many manifestations, like TOBA, Fulcrum and so is AAO, that makes all the sense.
The second image you sent isn't seen and I think that the one who is misinterpreting is you, what Al Ewing really meant is that TOAA doesn't have true forms, which denies the argument of many that claimed AAO is TOAA's true form, in addition to the different design and inferiority of feats.
The second scan is TOBA that Al Ewing was talking about (smoke monster)
TOAA have no true form neither does OAA you can see in the first scan, and same with TOBA he don't have true form. And he said smoke monster makes good signifier but even that look different with different writers
Exactly, TOAA has no true form so it's debunked that AAO is his true form as said many, AAO is a PART from TOAA if anything while TOBA is his bad side.
I'd probably go with DC. While Marvel has the most powerful being in all of fiction The One Above All, DC has a huge roster of powerful characters. The List includes Superman, Batman, The Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Dr Manhattan, SHAZAM, Martian Manhunter, Dr Fate, Darkseid, Spectre, Constantine, Lucifer, Anti-Monitor, Michael Demiurgos, Ellaine Belloc, Mxyzptlk, and of course The Presence who is the most powerful being in that universe. Compared to Marvel, DC holds more firepower.
It depends on what Universe the fight happens in, because the Speed force(Flash clones) doesn't work in Marvel. In Marvel, the telepaths and teleporters would be dominant. Plus, Captain Universe in Marvel could create an unstoppable foe; imagine the Phoenix as 50 times more potent, then the Beyonder, Galactus, Molecule Man, and Infinity Gauntlet Thanos on the same team! Poison could kill you without touching you(just a look)! The telepaths could use powerful DC characters to fight for them(mind control). Mimic could copy Rogue and Multiple Man together*, plus 3 more. He could choose the DC side, too. The Super Adaptoid copies 8(using those same principles)! Adamantium would be a major barrier here, too(Ultron and Doombots)! DC would not win in Marvel without the SF.
In DC, DC probably wins due to the near instantaneous speed of the Flash clones and the force they can generate at the same time! They could hit so many foes before they could react and kill all but the Hulks, the Juggernauts, the Thanoses, Blue Marvels, Sentrys, etc. That's a lot of deaths in one universe. They also have time travel. In addition to that speed and power, you have kryptonians/amazonians and Lanterns all working together. They'd tsunami Marvel then in my opinion. SO, IT DEPENDS! Hope I made sense!
* The significance of that is huge, because having armies of fully empowered Mimics(Rogue powers and more) all over the place is no laughing matter for the opponent. That Mimic would be the curse that kept on giving! Using Multiple Man's powers, there'd plenty of them to go around!
If you talk about non cosmic beings, it depends. But if you include the cosmic beings, the above characters won't have any relevance. The cosmic beings will just blink and entire justice league ,avengers and all the mortals would wipe out. Its finally one above all vs presence.
Even in a universe busting battle, one side has to win or draw and one side has to lose. A win could happen if more entities are alive at the end or even a KO.
Still, in comics or TV, they rarely have universe busting battles; these battles almost always happen as if Superman was fighting Blue Marvel or as if Captain America was fighting Luke Cage RATHTER THAN 2 universe busters doing battle. And, these Universe busters simply duke it out with punches, speed, brawn, weaponry, and powers until a side wins.
@Michealdem17 You forget about Marvel's Unipower and the Infinity Gauntlet powerups. Those can turn even a very hard to beat force normally into an unstoppable one. Phoenix is one of the lesser of these very, very top level foes, but what would she be if the Unipower chose her to preserve the Marvel Universe? It would be silly for it to choose a character that would lose in such a battle(like Spider-man, Thor, or Hulk). So, a Unipowered Jean would be 50 times more powerful with possibly added powers. Basically, you have created another couple of unstoppable entities(with those 2 powerups) in addition to the characters Marvel already has. So, though DC is overpowered at base level, I wonder what they'd do at the very top. Galactus could also be well fed; that's another road to go down...
I always figured DC had the more powerful (or at least more awesome) villains. On the good side of the spectrum, I think Marvell would win. Perhaps a better question would be, which of the two would win with only the neutral characters... then again, neutral characters battling would be kinda paradoxical.
Why are we forgetting Marvel's power-ups? They are apart of the universe--NO? Nobody is mentioning those. I recuse my original statement and think Marvel gets it done.
DC would win. I think Marvel and Star Wars vs DC would be even. Honestly characters like Thor, Superman, and Hulk would do absolutely nothing in this fight. It is just the super powerful characters like Lucifer Morningstar, Beyonder, and Spectre.
No, no they wouldn't. TOAA is literally omnipotent for starters and LT gets his powers from him. He's like Spectre but stronger so no Lucifer can't do anything
Captain Cold VS Human Torch
Flash VS Hawkeye
Mr. Mxyzptlk VS TOAA (both multiversal beings, lmao)
Batman VS Dark Phoenix
Mephisto VS Lucifer Morningstar
Winter Soldier VS Darkseid
Oblivion VS Martian Manhunter
Mandrakk VS Black Widow
Thor VS Death of the Endless
Lucifer vs hulk ,hulk wins because angry he get stronger he become
Spectre vs Thor, Thor because God blast
Odin vs mandrakk ,Odin wins Odin force
Mxyzptlk vs living tribunal, I win no doubt
Batman vs Galactus,with Batman will find some way
Superman vs beyonder,Superman because he is a superman
Darkseid vs Franklin Richard , darkseid Omega bim
empty hand vs captain America , captain America he can't break his shield
Lucifer would destroy Hulk(unless Immortal Hulk), Spectre (Aztar) is way above Old King Phoenix Thor, Mandrakk beats Odin, this is normal Batman, no extra gadgets or prep time , Galactus stomps, Beyonder is more powerful than Cosmic Armor Superman, Mxyzptlk is powerful but LT would win, kid Franklin would beat Darkseid but Frank isn't used too his powers. Adult Franklin Richards defeated Galactus. Empty Hand beats Cap so badly.
Ur wrong hulk will get angrier and beats Lucifer , Thor godblast u don't know howmuch powerful it is he can kill Spectre
Odin force this can kill mandrakk
Batman yrr he will win
Superman always win
I win no matter how powerful is LT
Heard Omega bim?this will erase Frank
Cap shield are too strong and his compat are superior
1. F*ck no
2. Ewww no
3. Meh
4. It's confirmed you're a troll Hal slaps
5. No, wtf
6. Yes
7. Idk
8. Atom would slap him into the ground
9. No...
10. No
11. No
12. Juggernaut
Dc cosmology is in top 3 in all fiction,they have way more layers and more impressive dimensions overall,Marvel cosmology is fodder like rest of their verse.
Dream of the Endless is also a Neil Gaiman autosert and contains stories within his library (it even contains all of Lovecraft's cosmology)
TOAA is fictional character nothing more.
Fictional character is fictional.
There's no different between AAO and TOAA
This is supreme above all others, who recreate omni-reality
Supreme being and ruler of marvel LT work for him
and who is supreme being and ruler of marvel ? Tell me TOAA ever created omni-reality?
Again
TOAA is fictional character, where is stated that was avatar of TOAA ? just because they uses his name different way?
You mean fans statement > writer opinion? LMAO
No, it's actual statements from the comic.
Statement from comic ? LOL then it's more clear, that i already gave you.
And where's your proof again?
I asked you something but you don't have it, how can you say that it is already debunked?
All those proofs and scans that you ask me are here.
I see your debates no where, neither i realise anything, i think you gave me the wrong link.
And non of those scans and proof that i asked you were there.
Oh they were, you asked me for proofs of AAO not being the same as TOAA, well this isn't an exactly statement but means a lot
Also TOAA has many manifestations, like TOBA, Fulcrum and so is AAO, that makes all the sense.
They don't have true form means like that
Smoke monster
I think this was the smoke monster
TOAA and TOBA are opposite of each other
I think you misunderstanding the statement
TOAA have no true form neither does OAA you can see in the first scan, and same with TOBA he don't have true form. And he said smoke monster makes good signifier but even that look different with different writers
In DC, DC probably wins due to the near instantaneous speed of the Flash clones and the force they can generate at the same time! They could hit so many foes before they could react and kill all but the Hulks, the Juggernauts, the Thanoses, Blue Marvels, Sentrys, etc. That's a lot of deaths in one universe. They also have time travel. In addition to that speed and power, you have kryptonians/amazonians and Lanterns all working together. They'd tsunami Marvel then in my opinion. SO, IT DEPENDS! Hope I made sense!
* The significance of that is huge, because having armies of fully empowered Mimics(Rogue powers and more) all over the place is no laughing matter for the opponent. That Mimic would be the curse that kept on giving! Using Multiple Man's powers, there'd plenty of them to go around!
Still, in comics or TV, they rarely have universe busting battles; these battles almost always happen as if Superman was fighting Blue Marvel or as if Captain America was fighting Luke Cage RATHTER THAN 2 universe busters doing battle. And, these Universe busters simply duke it out with punches, speed, brawn, weaponry, and powers until a side wins.
Flash VS Hawkeye
Mr. Mxyzptlk VS TOAA (both multiversal beings, lmao)
Batman VS Dark Phoenix
Mephisto VS Lucifer Morningstar
Winter Soldier VS Darkseid
Oblivion VS Martian Manhunter
Mandrakk VS Black Widow
Thor VS Death of the Endless
Spectre vs Thor, Thor because God blast
Odin vs mandrakk ,Odin wins Odin force
Mxyzptlk vs living tribunal, I win no doubt
Batman vs Galactus,with Batman will find some way
Superman vs beyonder,Superman because he is a superman
Darkseid vs Franklin Richard , darkseid Omega bim
empty hand vs captain America , captain America he can't break his shield
Odin force this can kill mandrakk
Batman yrr he will win
Superman always win
I win no matter how powerful is LT
Heard Omega bim?this will erase Frank
Cap shield are too strong and his compat are superior
2. No.
3. No
4. No.
5. Maybe.
6. Yes.
7. Possibly Deathlok.
8. No.
9. No.
10. Maybe.
11. No.
12. No. (With prep: maybe)
2. Ewww no
3. Meh
4. It's confirmed you're a troll Hal slaps
5. No, wtf
6. Yes
7. Idk
8. Atom would slap him into the ground
9. No...
10. No
11. No
12. Juggernaut
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
6. Yes
7. IDK
8. No
9. No
10. No
11. No
12. No
This is my opinion.