technically according to this site's logic dc wins.
It comes down to the omnipotent beings.
Marvel has 2: The One-Above All and The One-Below All.
DC has 4: The Presence, Elaine Belloc, Overvoid, and the Writer.
I know omnipotence doesn't really beat omnipotence, but the Writer should be the reason DC wins.
marvel pros: very clear hierarchy/structure as well as clear categories
Dc pros:giant cosmology, vast lore and pretty consistent and over all very complicated in a good way(could be applied to both though)
Marvel has an entire universe with beyonders from the beyond shore, and countless other powerful beings as explained that the Marvel multiverse is a drop in a sea of infinite realities.
DC because of The Writer, Overvoid, The leviathan of stories, Story of superman(true one), Final Heven, Milkman man, presence, rita farr, utu, enil, the hand, The Eonymous
My opinion DC has far better cosmology because of vertigo.
The One Above All, House of Ideas, One Below All, Divine Creator, Beyonder(Pre-Retcon - Said to be second only to the One Above All), and countless beyonders.
You guys are all wrong Access is the most powerful character in both universes while yin and yang have more respect for each other than Marvel and DC fanboys
With or without almighty it would be a draw
Infinite multiverses
Infinite universes
Infinite dimensions
Endless timelines
Infinite Kingdoms
Endless possibilities
So endless characters vs infinite characters of all kinds
Then each universe to its avatar of the almighty god marvel or dc then equal with or without almighty
"transinfinite" in marvel just reffers to a greater infinity compared to infinity of universes, which would make aleph 1, not that impressive tbh, marvel fails to utilize transinfinite numbers correctly anyways, that doesnt really matter
Dc because even excluding presence dc has Lucifer, Michael, Oversoul, overvoid, source, all endless, primal spectre, wf mxy, coie anti-monitor, new god's Godhead, hand, word, emptyhand on the other hand marvel's eternity, infinity, living tribunal etc. always get absorbed or ultimately die
She absolutely cannot blink either one of them out of existence and I'm going to assume you're talking about strictly base Wanda which yes, then Zatanna has a good chance but against Galactus? Hell no.
"
The Presence absorbs Great Evil Beast, True Leviathan of Stories and The Source are its creatures, and from the writer's statement Overvoid is also its aspect"- Even you got destroyed by me more than 100 times. Imagine scaling presence with j.m. de matteis's words who is a marvel writer.
DeMatteis has contributed to Marvel as well and from what I could find, his work significantly boosts a lot of lower realms in Marvel which would otherwise be ignored. I wouldn't go ahead and say DC is ahead just because of him.
@R165 After reading your comment i just found that you are dumb as hell.
1. "TOAA is trash, he was defeated by Thanos and Nyx said that TOAA and AAO are the same"- Wrong. Thanos defeated "Above all other's" who existed within deep space , while true Above all others is the "one above all others" who exists in hoi , so thanos actually destroyed above all others who is an avatar of "one above all others who exists in hoi while true toaa is the creator of hoi , and embodies all writers , meaning all writers are just his embodies. So thanos defeated an m body's m body of toaa. So true toaa>>>one above all others(hoi)>>>above others. Also infinity conflict is non canon , so stop talking non sense.
2. "Also Overvoid contains Marvel verse:"- Overvoid is so fodder even lucifer merged with it. , so overvoid is a fodder. Again grant morrison does not have authority over marvel or other fictional verses like Al Ewing does. So gm's statements regarding marvel are non canon. Also marvel omniverse contains every fictional verses including real world and dc itself , and multi eternity 8th cosmos encompasses the omniverse , so multi eternity 8th cosmos contains dc. And Toaa is way more above it . Also marvel's official definition >>>grant morrison's statement. So marvel's multi eternity owns dc.
3. "And Overvoid is part of The Presence"-Presence is born from overvoid lmfao , so overvoid>>>infinite presence.
4. "So Marvel is just a germ in Overvoid and The Presence will blink all the Marvel verses in existence, and STOP Marvel Wanker here."-Stop wanking dc here and there. Trust me no one in the entire site takes you seriously. Go learn grammar first.
"well Multi-Eternity doesn't cover stupid Omniverse, Omniverse according to Marvel is a synonym for Multiverse and Overvoid will see all Marvel verses as germs so Stop Marvel Wanker here."-Sure did you even just read the scan for atleast 1 time. Omniverse is the collection of every single fictional verse including real world according to current marvel. Multi eternity contains the omniverse which contains dc lmao. Kid stop crying.
"are you stupid? GM made Overvoid and the idea did contain all the verses in the comics so what Marvel Omniverse meant could be called Overvoid and The Presence is God in the DC verse which includes Overvoid:
also don't be surprised if Lucifer can join Overvoid because he has half the strength of The Presence, also Specter who is fully supported by The Presence is able to join Overvoid:
"- Another example of r*tarded scaling. Did you have read a single comic of dc. Overvoid first appeared in lucifer 2000 series written by mike carey not grant morrison go read dc comics before crying here. Also as i said earlier. Gm does not have authority over marvel. Also by that logic multi eternity contains dc . Also marvel omniverse and overvoid are not same. You are the only dumb who thinks that. Marvel omniverse is contained within eternity so multi eternity contains dc lmfao. Also read my above scan overvoid is where presence is born. Also since lucifer has half strength of presence so presence is more fodder. Also spectre did not joined overvoid.
2."
if you mean like that then Scarlet Witch could really destroy entire verses in fiction because her panel was said to destroy the Omniverse."- out of context.
@R165 Do you know anything over marvel cosmology. Stop acting like a dumb. I have read your scans more than thousand times. That was a metaphor. Also hoi transcends marvel omniverse https://mobile.twitter.com/jimzub/status/1305154291343208450 , also multi eternity contains the omniverse which contains al other verses. Stop ignoring it.
Then i guess you did not read multiversity. Dc cosmology is too small and too easy to understand. Multiversity guide explained this in a way better way. Dc does not even suits the definition of complex.
" I slap you..."-Sure dc wanker. In all the debates i whooped your a** so badly that you can't accept truth now. Keep crying. Idc about you or your r*tarded scaling.
"don't you know yourself? your scaling is much weirder than me"-Yeah your scaling is trash beyond mathematics. Also everyone knows how is my scaling. My scaling is 1000000000times better than yours lmfao.
Any relevant dc god tier plays ping pong with the fodder verse,DC dwarfs marvel in both cosmology and hax,heck their god tiers are casually held back by pshyic based attacks,while dc god tiers plays with concepts like toys,also unlike Marvel,DC has boundless platonic concepts (endless for ex.) Marvel concepts are aristotelian, a.k.a fodder,lol their supreme being lost a huge part of its power and lost his authority because of a multi dimensional crisis.inb4 AOO isn't toaa,which is nonsense since toaa's description and AOO's description is same,they were both stated to be creator of the verse and master of LT and "above all others" was said multiple times here for ex. they are treated as same,both were called AOO,both were stated to be creator,both were stated to be the master of LT yet they are diffrent because fans can't accept,yeh sure and infinity is canon,when there are literal references to canon series (LT fighting beyonders) and nothing says otherwise,even if you ignore this dc still blinks due to inconceivable diffrence in cosmology,GG
The fact that DC ''plays'' with concepts or use more elegent/complex words doesn't mean in Marvel they don't do so or their cosmology isn't that impressive.
Yes DC plays with concepts, there are sentient platonic concepts in dc a.k.a endless such concepts does not exists in Marvel,their concepts are aristotelian,and endless aren't even in top 10,Lucifer who isn't in top 5 can oneshot all of endless,Heck pre retcon Beyonder a so called god tier was held back when some random spaceships was firing him pshycal energy blasts he needed a large portion of his power in order to make a poison to kill death,death only governed the deaths of beings inside a baseline sized Multiverse by that time,he can't even effect aristotelian concepts directly,this dude was stated to be millions of times stronger than 90% of abstracts,Dc god tiers on the other hand can play pinball with sentient platonic concepts.
Dc cosmology is in top 3 in all fiction,they have way more layers and more impressive dimensions overall,Marvel cosmology is fodder like rest of their verse.
Based on the fact that TOAA is the embodiment of all the writers, editors, cartoonists, translators and everyone who works at Marvel on comics, HoI is second to TOAA and that's where he resides.
I expected that argument, The author of Lucifer said that Lucifer is not bound by the infinite page.
Dream of the Endless is also a Neil Gaiman autosert and contains stories within his library (it even contains all of Lovecraft's cosmology)
@UNKNOWN_ How is that a ''useless'' concept and what else could surpass that scale? I've seen many use the same argument in The Writer's favor and I don't see you complaining about it.
@UNKNOWN Lmao that's Above All Others (a TOAA's avatar) who isn't even close to him and that was why I asked you for scans, because I knew they didn't exist unless today you continue to confuse AAO with TOAA.
@pedro You can explain to me even the first time you have told me about it to say ''how many times do I have to explain you''? and omnipotent is a bad term used in comics.
@UNKNOWN Above All Others takes on multiple forms when we see him, yet he is never portrayed as the actual writer himself. The issue enlies, with the fact that The One Above All, is portrayed as the writer.
The truth is, I find it a bit boring to talk about something that was debunked a long time ago (TOAA and AAO being the same) and that scan doesn't quite clarify anything, TOAA is still the representation of all writers and has been stated several times, statements > a writer opinion.
Yes, I gonna to, because as I said, I've debated the same thing several times and to repeat what I once said I prefer that you go to the page yourself and realize it.
All those proofs and scans that you ask me are here.
Cuz that isn't the exactly page where I did debate.
Oh they were, you asked me for proofs of AAO not being the same as TOAA, well this isn't an exactly statement but means a lot
Also TOAA has many manifestations, like TOBA, Fulcrum and so is AAO, that makes all the sense.
The second image you sent isn't seen and I think that the one who is misinterpreting is you, what Al Ewing really meant is that TOAA doesn't have true forms, which denies the argument of many that claimed AAO is TOAA's true form, in addition to the different design and inferiority of feats.
The second scan is TOBA that Al Ewing was talking about (smoke monster)
TOAA have no true form neither does OAA you can see in the first scan, and same with TOBA he don't have true form. And he said smoke monster makes good signifier but even that look different with different writers
Exactly, TOAA has no true form so it's debunked that AAO is his true form as said many, AAO is a PART from TOAA if anything while TOBA is his bad side.
I'd probably go with DC. While Marvel has the most powerful being in all of fiction The One Above All, DC has a huge roster of powerful characters. The List includes Superman, Batman, The Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Dr Manhattan, SHAZAM, Martian Manhunter, Dr Fate, Darkseid, Spectre, Constantine, Lucifer, Anti-Monitor, Michael Demiurgos, Ellaine Belloc, Mxyzptlk, and of course The Presence who is the most powerful being in that universe. Compared to Marvel, DC holds more firepower.
It depends on what Universe the fight happens in, because the Speed force(Flash clones) doesn't work in Marvel. In Marvel, the telepaths and teleporters would be dominant. Plus, Captain Universe in Marvel could create an unstoppable foe; imagine the Phoenix as 50 times more potent, then the Beyonder, Galactus, Molecule Man, and Infinity Gauntlet Thanos on the same team! Poison could kill you without touching you(just a look)! The telepaths could use powerful DC characters to fight for them(mind control). Mimic could copy Rogue and Multiple Man together*, plus 3 more. He could choose the DC side, too. The Super Adaptoid copies 8(using those same principles)! Adamantium would be a major barrier here, too(Ultron and Doombots)! DC would not win in Marvel without the SF.
In DC, DC probably wins due to the near instantaneous speed of the Flash clones and the force they can generate at the same time! They could hit so many foes before they could react and kill all but the Hulks, the Juggernauts, the Thanoses, Blue Marvels, Sentrys, etc. That's a lot of deaths in one universe. They also have time travel. In addition to that speed and power, you have kryptonians/amazonians and Lanterns all working together. They'd tsunami Marvel then in my opinion. SO, IT DEPENDS! Hope I made sense!
* The significance of that is huge, because having armies of fully empowered Mimics(Rogue powers and more) all over the place is no laughing matter for the opponent. That Mimic would be the curse that kept on giving! Using Multiple Man's powers, there'd plenty of them to go around!
If you talk about non cosmic beings, it depends. But if you include the cosmic beings, the above characters won't have any relevance. The cosmic beings will just blink and entire justice league ,avengers and all the mortals would wipe out. Its finally one above all vs presence.
Even in a universe busting battle, one side has to win or draw and one side has to lose. A win could happen if more entities are alive at the end or even a KO.
Still, in comics or TV, they rarely have universe busting battles; these battles almost always happen as if Superman was fighting Blue Marvel or as if Captain America was fighting Luke Cage RATHTER THAN 2 universe busters doing battle. And, these Universe busters simply duke it out with punches, speed, brawn, weaponry, and powers until a side wins.
@Michealdem17 You forget about Marvel's Unipower and the Infinity Gauntlet powerups. Those can turn even a very hard to beat force normally into an unstoppable one. Phoenix is one of the lesser of these very, very top level foes, but what would she be if the Unipower chose her to preserve the Marvel Universe? It would be silly for it to choose a character that would lose in such a battle(like Spider-man, Thor, or Hulk). So, a Unipowered Jean would be 50 times more powerful with possibly added powers. Basically, you have created another couple of unstoppable entities(with those 2 powerups) in addition to the characters Marvel already has. So, though DC is overpowered at base level, I wonder what they'd do at the very top. Galactus could also be well fed; that's another road to go down...
I always figured DC had the more powerful (or at least more awesome) villains. On the good side of the spectrum, I think Marvell would win. Perhaps a better question would be, which of the two would win with only the neutral characters... then again, neutral characters battling would be kinda paradoxical.
Why are we forgetting Marvel's power-ups? They are apart of the universe--NO? Nobody is mentioning those. I recuse my original statement and think Marvel gets it done.
DC would win. I think Marvel and Star Wars vs DC would be even. Honestly characters like Thor, Superman, and Hulk would do absolutely nothing in this fight. It is just the super powerful characters like Lucifer Morningstar, Beyonder, and Spectre.
No, no they wouldn't. TOAA is literally omnipotent for starters and LT gets his powers from him. He's like Spectre but stronger so no Lucifer can't do anything
Captain Cold VS Human Torch
Flash VS Hawkeye
Mr. Mxyzptlk VS TOAA (both multiversal beings, lmao)
Batman VS Dark Phoenix
Mephisto VS Lucifer Morningstar
Winter Soldier VS Darkseid
Oblivion VS Martian Manhunter
Mandrakk VS Black Widow
Thor VS Death of the Endless
Lucifer vs hulk ,hulk wins because angry he get stronger he become
Spectre vs Thor, Thor because God blast
Odin vs mandrakk ,Odin wins Odin force
Mxyzptlk vs living tribunal, I win no doubt
Batman vs Galactus,with Batman will find some way
Superman vs beyonder,Superman because he is a superman
Darkseid vs Franklin Richard , darkseid Omega bim
empty hand vs captain America , captain America he can't break his shield
Lucifer would destroy Hulk(unless Immortal Hulk), Spectre (Aztar) is way above Old King Phoenix Thor, Mandrakk beats Odin, this is normal Batman, no extra gadgets or prep time , Galactus stomps, Beyonder is more powerful than Cosmic Armor Superman, Mxyzptlk is powerful but LT would win, kid Franklin would beat Darkseid but Frank isn't used too his powers. Adult Franklin Richards defeated Galactus. Empty Hand beats Cap so badly.
Ur wrong hulk will get angrier and beats Lucifer , Thor godblast u don't know howmuch powerful it is he can kill Spectre
Odin force this can kill mandrakk
Batman yrr he will win
Superman always win
I win no matter how powerful is LT
Heard Omega bim?this will erase Frank
Cap shield are too strong and his compat are superior
1. F*ck no
2. Ewww no
3. Meh
4. It's confirmed you're a troll Hal slaps
5. No, wtf
6. Yes
7. Idk
8. Atom would slap him into the ground
9. No...
10. No
11. No
12. Juggernaut
It comes down to the omnipotent beings.
Marvel has 2: The One-Above All and The One-Below All.
DC has 4: The Presence, Elaine Belloc, Overvoid, and the Writer.
I know omnipotence doesn't really beat omnipotence, but the Writer should be the reason DC wins.
Dc pros:giant cosmology, vast lore and pretty consistent and over all very complicated in a good way(could be applied to both though)
Are you serious? Yea mf for example you.
Though All omnipotent beings should stalemate.
My opinion DC has far better cosmology because of vertigo.
Infinite multiverses
Infinite universes
Infinite dimensions
Endless timelines
Infinite Kingdoms
Endless possibilities
So endless characters vs infinite characters of all kinds
Then each universe to its avatar of the almighty god marvel or dc then equal with or without almighty
"transinfinite" in marvel just reffers to a greater infinity compared to infinity of universes, which would make aleph 1, not that impressive tbh, marvel fails to utilize transinfinite numbers correctly anyways, that doesnt really matter
You don't see image
He'd jump out of the story and kil the writers
The Presence absorbs Great Evil Beast, True Leviathan of Stories and The Source are its creatures, and from the writer's statement Overvoid is also its aspect"- Even you got destroyed by me more than 100 times. Imagine scaling presence with j.m. de matteis's words who is a marvel writer.
1. "TOAA is trash, he was defeated by Thanos and Nyx said that TOAA and AAO are the same"- Wrong. Thanos defeated "Above all other's" who existed within deep space
2. "Also Overvoid contains Marvel verse:"- Overvoid is so fodder even lucifer merged with it.
3. "And Overvoid is part of The Presence"-Presence is born from overvoid lmfao
4. "So Marvel is just a germ in Overvoid and The Presence will blink all the Marvel verses in existence, and STOP Marvel Wanker here."-Stop wanking dc here and there. Trust me no one in the entire site takes you seriously. Go learn grammar first.
also don't be surprised if Lucifer can join Overvoid because he has half the strength of The Presence, also Specter who is fully supported by The Presence is able to join Overvoid:
"- Another example of r*tarded scaling. Did you have read a single comic of dc. Overvoid first appeared in lucifer 2000 series written by mike carey not grant morrison go read dc comics before crying here. Also as i said earlier. Gm does not have authority over marvel. Also by that logic multi eternity contains dc . Also marvel omniverse and overvoid are not same. You are the only dumb who thinks that. Marvel omniverse is contained within eternity so multi eternity contains dc lmfao. Also read my above scan overvoid is where presence is born. Also since lucifer has half strength of presence so presence is more fodder. Also spectre did not joined overvoid.
2."
if you mean like that then Scarlet Witch could really destroy entire verses in fiction because her panel was said to destroy the Omniverse."- out of context.
2. Did
3. I don't know
and their entities are way more impressive, like The Endless and the Archangels.
Dc cosmology is in top 3 in all fiction,they have way more layers and more impressive dimensions overall,Marvel cosmology is fodder like rest of their verse.
Dream of the Endless is also a Neil Gaiman autosert and contains stories within his library (it even contains all of Lovecraft's cosmology)
TOAA is fictional character nothing more.
Fictional character is fictional.
There's no different between AAO and TOAA
This is supreme above all others, who recreate omni-reality
Supreme being and ruler of marvel LT work for him
and who is supreme being and ruler of marvel ? Tell me TOAA ever created omni-reality?
Again
TOAA is fictional character, where is stated that was avatar of TOAA ? just because they uses his name different way?
You mean fans statement > writer opinion? LMAO
No, it's actual statements from the comic.
Statement from comic ? LOL then it's more clear, that i already gave you.
And where's your proof again?
I asked you something but you don't have it, how can you say that it is already debunked?
All those proofs and scans that you ask me are here.
I see your debates no where, neither i realise anything, i think you gave me the wrong link.
And non of those scans and proof that i asked you were there.
Oh they were, you asked me for proofs of AAO not being the same as TOAA, well this isn't an exactly statement but means a lot
Also TOAA has many manifestations, like TOBA, Fulcrum and so is AAO, that makes all the sense.
They don't have true form means like that
Smoke monster
I think this was the smoke monster
TOAA and TOBA are opposite of each other
I think you misunderstanding the statement
TOAA have no true form neither does OAA you can see in the first scan, and same with TOBA he don't have true form. And he said smoke monster makes good signifier but even that look different with different writers
In DC, DC probably wins due to the near instantaneous speed of the Flash clones and the force they can generate at the same time! They could hit so many foes before they could react and kill all but the Hulks, the Juggernauts, the Thanoses, Blue Marvels, Sentrys, etc. That's a lot of deaths in one universe. They also have time travel. In addition to that speed and power, you have kryptonians/amazonians and Lanterns all working together. They'd tsunami Marvel then in my opinion. SO, IT DEPENDS! Hope I made sense!
* The significance of that is huge, because having armies of fully empowered Mimics(Rogue powers and more) all over the place is no laughing matter for the opponent. That Mimic would be the curse that kept on giving! Using Multiple Man's powers, there'd plenty of them to go around!
Still, in comics or TV, they rarely have universe busting battles; these battles almost always happen as if Superman was fighting Blue Marvel or as if Captain America was fighting Luke Cage RATHTER THAN 2 universe busters doing battle. And, these Universe busters simply duke it out with punches, speed, brawn, weaponry, and powers until a side wins.
Flash VS Hawkeye
Mr. Mxyzptlk VS TOAA (both multiversal beings, lmao)
Batman VS Dark Phoenix
Mephisto VS Lucifer Morningstar
Winter Soldier VS Darkseid
Oblivion VS Martian Manhunter
Mandrakk VS Black Widow
Thor VS Death of the Endless
Spectre vs Thor, Thor because God blast
Odin vs mandrakk ,Odin wins Odin force
Mxyzptlk vs living tribunal, I win no doubt
Batman vs Galactus,with Batman will find some way
Superman vs beyonder,Superman because he is a superman
Darkseid vs Franklin Richard , darkseid Omega bim
empty hand vs captain America , captain America he can't break his shield
Odin force this can kill mandrakk
Batman yrr he will win
Superman always win
I win no matter how powerful is LT
Heard Omega bim?this will erase Frank
Cap shield are too strong and his compat are superior
2. No.
3. No
4. No.
5. Maybe.
6. Yes.
7. Possibly Deathlok.
8. No.
9. No.
10. Maybe.
11. No.
12. No. (With prep: maybe)
2. Ewww no
3. Meh
4. It's confirmed you're a troll Hal slaps
5. No, wtf
6. Yes
7. Idk
8. Atom would slap him into the ground
9. No...
10. No
11. No
12. Juggernaut
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
6. Yes
7. IDK
8. No
9. No
10. No
11. No
12. No
This is my opinion.