Earth 616/Asgard Thor (SirSpidey) vs Earth 616 Hulk (TheNemianLion)

Failure to respond within a month is a forfeit and I will be deemed the winner, @SirSpidey you have three days.

Last time I checked, you couldn't come up with rules on your own

3. Stop being a smart alec, you know that SHDB has issues with links, here is the comic book, Hulk defeated an Eternity empowered Dormammu with a sneak attack, but broke through his durability to render him unconscious, this is the whole comic, not just a scan son, so how about you actually read it now instead of making spiteful statements like a little girl? Also, I love how you just typed in a bunch of bulls*it to fill in the length of your comments, because your comments don't have enough substance to match mine, you need to fill in your comments with complete and utter ****.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Defenders-2005/Issue-5?id=52587

4. An inconclusive fight by definition is a stalemate, as there was no winner, therefore it is a draw, I know logic is another word for Silas repellant, but try to stick it out until we're done, no buddy, that was not a Maestro incarnation of Hulk, that was Professor Hulk with long hair and a beard, the gamma poisoning had not affected his head until after he got hit by the nuke, thanks for proving you aren't capable of sustaining knowledge about the subject hand, you really proved how much of a great debater you really are Mr. Carmack, warriors madness Thor is a state that he unlocks through excessive rage, very similar to the World Breaker form, if we want to use Warriors Madness Thor we have to use World Breaker, as for World War Hulk, that's literally just an angry Hulk with armour no massive emotional empowerment, sure it's a angry/strong Hulk, but nothing drastically above his normal state.

5. You tell me to get a brain yet you literally do not have the brain capacity to read a 5 part graphic novel... Are you that stupid... ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID!? You can't read a damn book with mostly pictures... I previously knew you were a dumbass Silas, but really, you're blowing my mind with your recent idiocy.

World War Hulk, issue 2, I'm sorry he ONE SHOTS Ares, now, Ares is constantly shown to fight on par with Hercules, Hercules when battling Thor was his physical superior, the only way Thor could win was using his lightning attacks, otherwise, Hercules is physically stronger, yet, someone who was close to Hercules was beaten in one punch by Hulk, Hulk therefore logically could beat Hercules with one or two punches, and Hercules is Thor's superior, logic tells us Hulk would beat Thor with just 1 or 2 punches.

In issue 4, Hulk takes the power of an amped Doctor Strange and then comes back to beat him to bloody paste

6. Listen, Silas, instead of talking s*it every chance you get, learn to use your brain, and thus use your ears, you ready... Here we go... SHDB HAS ISSUES WITH LINKS, I SENT YOU THE ISSUE NUMBERS FOR EVERY CLAIM I MADE! I THEN BACKED THEM UP WITH SCANS! IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT I SENT YOU SCANS BECAUSE I ALREADY SENT YOU THE ISSUE NUMBER! I WAS JUST POINTING OUT WHICH PART OF THE COMIC BOOK I WAS REFERRING TO IN PARTICULAR! YOU HAVE A COMPUTER AND THE ISSUE NUMBERS AVAILABLE! YOU CAN EASILY USE READCOMICSONLINE TO CHECK THE CONTEXT! BUT YOU WILL FIND THAT EVERYTHING I SAY IS CORRECT!... You are such a complete and utter buffoon... Dumbest kid I have ever met in my entire life, and that's saying something.

7. Oh my God you fool... BEATING JUGGERNAUT IS IMPRESSIVE! Especially when he has handed Thor his ass in the past! Sure, Thor on a good day could defeat Juggernaut, easily? MAYBE, with one attack? HELL NO! Not even Odin Force Thor, but who beat Juggernaut with one attack? Onslaught! Not only did Onslaught beat Juggernaut with one attack, he made it so he was unable to even MOVE, Hulk, however, beat Onslaught, but do you know who couldn't beat Onslaught? That's right! THOR! Absolutely useless against him! Try again, buffoon!

8. Dude... What assumption is there to be made!? Hulk LAID HER OUT! What part of that is so difficult for your minuscule brain to understand? Simple logic tells you that she was too injured to get back up, she was rendered unconscious as she hadn't moved for a long duration of the comic! She wasn't just sun baking, come on, I know you really don't have any brain capacity at all but use your brain!

Now you're saying that Phoenix Force Cyclops is only planetary... Even though he shot Thor into the upper Hemisphere? Thor, a universal / Multi-Universal being could do NOTHING to a Phoenix Force Cyclops... Yet you are saying he's only planetary... When Phoenix Force-empowered characters are powerful enough to tussle with a well-fed Galactus... They are planet level... Your claims are so nonsensical I can not even put them into words, you are a disgrace!

In fact, in issue 10, Cyclops rendered Thor unable to continue fighting with one optic blast... And at the time he only had a smaller portion of the Phoenix Force... Are you going to call that PIS? Thor throughout the entire book has been shown to be weaker than even a small percentage of the Phoenix, because he's some facts for you, Thor isn't even as powerful as a fraction of the Phoenix, neither is he anywhere close to a base Hulk, a base Hulk, in fact, a weaker Hulk, Professor Hulk knocked an EMPOWERED THOR, Warriors Madness Thor, into the horizon, just so he wouldn't get hit by the super nuke, so a weak Hulk is strong as an extremely high-level Thor, that's FACTS! Stop denying them! Thor is on the level of Nova and Gladiator, Hulk ripped Gladiator apart! FACTS!

9. A time storm that was tearing apart space/time continuum, and Hulk rendered the space/time continuum for long enough until Kang's ship passed through, to be able to manipulate time you need to be more powerful than the 3rd dimension, therefore logically Hulk is 4 dimensional when it comes to physical strength, you do not define what a multiverse is, your word is not law.

Definition Of Multiverse - "A hypothetical space or realm consisting of a number of universes, of which our own universe is only one." different multiverses are different sizes my dude, DC's Multiverse consist of 52 universes, as well as Realms far larger than a universe, Skyrealm, Heaven, etc, and then different dimensional realms in their multiverse, so that's what makes it multiverse sized, the 3D multiverse section is Low Multiversal while the complete Multiverse of DC is high Multiversal, Marvel is different, they hold dimensions inside their universes.

10. I don't think you quite understand what time being broken means, it doesn't mean that it's physically destroyed, it means that it's in chaos, and it's not stable, if it was physically broken, Einstein, why the hell would they make such an emphasis later that Hulk broke it? You are literally so self-contradictory it's not even funny at this point, dude... STOP IT! JUST STOP IT! Hulk broke through the time BARRIER! Which is the physical construct of time, use your brain, you can't break something already broken, so when they say it was broken, it just means all these paradoxes and chaotic madness was running amuck and it was unstable, for example, Betty Ross was never born, Hulk broke the physical construct, yet, if your comprehensions skills were superior to that of even a toddler, you would easily know that, TRY AGAIN! And this time try using your brain too!

11. Clearly, I was misspelling the word on purpose, I study Year 12 English Language, and you don't think I have the intellectual capabilities to spell Cataclysmic? Are you serious bro? Anyway, was Thor stated to move at unimaginable speeds by the Narrator/Writer? If not it's a mere hyperbolic statement, statements only hold merit when they are made my the author... Wait... You can't be serious... YOU ARE CRITICIZING MY DEFINITION OF A MULTIVERSE WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE WHO GOT IT WRONG EARLIER!??? HAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU ARE AN ACTUAL IMBECILE! I LOVE IT!

Here, I'll repeat it - "A hypothetical space or realm consisting of a number of universes, of which our own universe is only one."

Besides, it doesn't even matter if it's universal in size, the fact that he is destroying an infinite number of it makes the feat Multiversal regardless, that's facts! SO TRY AGAIN SILAS CARMACK!

12. How would he have amplified the abilities of the Hulk when the Hulk was not even present!? Again, this is disproven as Hulk defeated Dark Crawler a second time, when Darkcrawler came to Earth, so this claim is in fact, invalid as Hulk couldn't have defeated Dark Crawler the second time if when he beat him the first time he was empowered, so no, Satannish only empowered Banner so he could survive in a higher dimensional realm, otherwise he could not reach it much less survive, Hulk handily defeated Dark Crawler the second time they fought. So Silas Carmack, you already know what I'm about to say... Try again!

13. No, you're thinking about their conflict in the 60's, I'm referring to Thor VS Namor of the 90's, when Namor and Thor went BLOW FOR BLOW EQUALLY! Namor did stand a chance against the Odin Son as he was fighting blow for blow with him... Common logic mate, you just had your facts jumbled up.

Hulk was beating down on them, Read Marvel Comics The End, it's only a 3 part graphic novel, with six issues, relatively short, Thanos obtains this Heart Of The Universe and he becomes more powerful than even The Living Tribunal

Here you can read it - https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Marvel-The-End

#1) Umm, Death is Universal in power. Let's go down the list of beings that Thor has defeated who are Universal in power so that we can confirm if Thor defeating Death is PIS, or an outlier, or whatever you want to claim it is:

- The Destroyer (Thor Volume 3 #5, Page #18, Panel #4)
- Surtur and Ymir (Thor Volume 1 #425, Page #21, Panel #2)
- Mangog (Thor Volume 2 #25, Page #18, Panel #4)
- Mephisto (Thor Volume 1 #205, Page #19, Panel #3 and Thor Volume 1 #310, Page #21, Panel #6)
- An Odinforce Empowered Majeston Zelia (Thor Volume 2 #12, Page #32, Panel #2)
- Ego (Thor Volume 1 #227, Page #13, Panel #4)
- Glory (Chaos War: Thor #1, Page #10, Panel #3)
- Galactus (Thor Volume 1 #161, Page #18, Panel #4)
- The Void (Siege Volume 1 #4, Page #17, Panel #1)

These are just from the top of my head. So you tell me if it was an outlier.

Think of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as water. It can come in three different forms, liquid, solid, and gas. Take a cup of water with ice in it for example. You have the water, the ice, and the condensation that is built up around the cup. Now, they are all water, correct? There is no difference between them besides how they assume their form. The same could be said about the Trinity. There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Why do you think God used the phrases "us" and "our" in 'Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 26', "Then God said, 'Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the Earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground?'"

#2) Yes, if the Hulk was about to destroy Nightmare's Dimension, I would imagine that Nightmare would be begging for the Hulk to stop. Not that any of that matters, because, physically, Nightmare was completely fine anyways. What? You don't like being called cupcake? I just thought that such a soft and sensitive guy like you would appreciate being called something as such. In which comic has Dormammu merged the Dark Dimension with other Dimensions to make it the size of a Universe? I mean, logically, you cannot assume the size of something that you have no evidence for. You literally just said that the Nightmare Realm houses the nightmares of everyone in the Universe, but then went on to say that that is Multiversal in power. What in the actual f**k? That does not add up. Not only does all of the nightmares in the Universe not equal a Multiverse, but also, the number of nightmares the Nightmare Realm holds has nothing to do with the Hulk's attack potency. The Hulk can destroy a Realm with an infinite amount of nightmares in it and he still wouldn't be doing anything, unless the size of the Realm itself is an impressive size, of which you have yet to prove that the Nightmare Realm or the Dark Dimension are an impressive size. First off, you need to prove that the Dark Dimension is the largest Dimension. Secondly, you need to prove that any other Dimension is impressive in size, or else the Dark Dimension being the largest Dimension isn't going to be very impressive. And lastly, I am still waiting for a comic. Nothing you have said concerning this scan is relevant considering your evidence is out of context.

#3) Well, if you know Superhero Database has issues with links, why send them in the first place? Just give me the comic, and all will be perfectly fine. Anyways, hmmm. Hmmm. I see now why you were so reluctant as to giving me the comic book issue. On Page #17, Panel #3 of 'Defenders Volume 3 #5', Umar very clearly says to Dormammu, "I can. I did. So focused on the sorcerer, you didn't realize it was even happening. Not only stole away Eternity's power, but I pretty much sucked out the rest of yours, too." This not only proves that you use out of context scans as evidence for your arguments, which is not a quality I would expect to see from the best debater of Superhero Database, but also this proves that the Hulk knocked down a powerless Dormammu, which isn't impressive at all, not to mention it was by surprise. But don't think that is all. If you still need evidence of Dormammu being powerless when the Hulk knocked him down, let me refer to you 'Defenders Volume 3 #2, Pages #8-9' where it shows the Hulk actually fighting a full powered Dormammu, without the power of Eternity, who literally bodied the Hulk without even lifting a finger, proving that the Hulk cannot compete with a full powered Dormammu. So much for the argument of the Hulk being on par with higher tiered Cosmic Entities. Hmm, I fill my comments with bulls**t, yet, at the same amount of responses, I had more points than you. That makes some logical sense.

#4) The definition of 'inconclusive' is, "not leading to a firm conclusion; not ending doubt or dispute." In a stalemate, we are not left to doubt the outcome of the battle, because it is obvious that the two combatants were equal in power. In Warrior's Madness Thor's and the Maestro's fight, the battle was not a stalemate because we are left to doubt the outcome of the battle due to the interference of the nuke. So that battle is pointless as evidence. As for World War Hulk, nevertheless, as you said, World War Hulk is still just a very angry level Hulk, just as Warrior's Madness Thor is just a very angry level Thor. And the last time I checked, World War Hulk defeating an amped Doctor Strange is far, far above his normal state. Lastly, if you want to use World Breaker Hulk, then I get to use Odinforce Thor. End of story.

#5) It's not a matter of mental capacity, it is a matter of time management and as I said, I don't have time to read 5 separate comics just to find one pointless feat. As for Thor vs Hercules, In that specific battle, Thor was trying to talk Hercules out of fighting throughout the entire battle, as he does in most of his fights, which led to him being caught off guard and being put into a headlock by Hercules. By no means does that prove Hercules is superior to Thor. Two men with equal strength can be in a fight and one of them puts the other in a headlock. Considering the man who is putting the other in a headlock has leverage and is in a much better position, of course the man with equal strength isn't going to be able to break free. That requires simple logic and knowledge of the human body to understand. But, what I find even more interesting is why you left the most crucial part of this matchup out. Thor and Hercules have tested their strength against each other in an arm wrestling match in 'Thor Volume 1 #400 (When Warriors Clasp!), Pages #1-4' and neither of them could budge the other. The writers even say that their arm wrestling match could go on for centuries, considering, you know, they are ACTUALLY immortal. This proves that Thor and Hercules are each other's equals in STRENGTH and strength alone. Versatility, power, speed, durability, et cetera are a completely different story. This is proven in the fight referenced above, when Thor proved he was the superior to Hercules by showcasing a small, small fragment of his true capabilities, also known as lightning.

#5) (Continued) With that said, why are you basing your whole entire argument of the Hulk being the superior to Thor upon strength? Strength is not a deciding factor in a fight such as Thor vs the Hulk. You have to look at the bigger picture, which includes factoring in not only Thor's strength, but every other ability afforded to him by his godly energies/attributes and Mjolnir, of which he almost NEVER uses on the Hulk in their battles. And I am just going to throw this feat out there just to completely shut down your argument of Hercules being the superior to Thor in any way. In 'Thor Volume 1 #126, Page #9, Panel #1', a holding back Thor EASILY forces Hercules on his knees when he is tired of Hercules' bulls**t. Their entire battle shows Thor bodying Hercules. On Page #4, Panel #1 of the very same issue, Hercules admits that Mjolnir is superior to his mace, "His enchanted hammer makes a living mockery of mine own mace..." All of this proves that Mjolnir is superior to Hercules' mace and that even a holding back Thor is the superior to Hercules. Your power scaling is terribly wrong because all you did was factor in mere strength. There is more to it than mere strength, and I think you know this, but would rather ignore it because the Hulk is only centered around strength. It is a poor debating tactic that the best debater of Superhero Database would not use. By the way, since we are on the topic, why do you feel the need to use the feats of variations of the Hulk that aren't even his base? I know you don't have enough feats of base Hulk to prove he is superior to Thor, but instead of living in denial, why don't you just own up to the truth? It really isn't that hard.

#6) How am I supposed to use my ears whenever we are communicating through means of text? Are you sure you aren't mentally impaired? I mean, it only takes a little common sense to know these things, so I am not sure what your deal is? I understand Superhero Database has issues with links, and I already asked you why you would use links if you know Superhero Database has issues with them? That is literally the definition of insanity. I still do not have an answer as to why you sent the same feat as number five. I don't know if it was a separate feat, just that the site erased that text and replaced it with the same text as you put for number five, or what? Please clear this up, or I am just going to completely forget about this section of our debate.

#7) You still DO NOT have sufficient evidence. I have looked everywhere and "Onslaught Impact Volume 2" is nowhere to be found. So either you give me the evidence that is needed or we are going to end this section of the debate as well.

#8) Oh, I don't know? Maybe the fact that you are assuming that the Hulk did ANYTHING to her? Prove that the Phoenix Force empowered Emma Frost was even phased by the Hulk, because I can tell you right now on Page #20, Panel #2, in 'Avengers vs X-Men #11', the Phoenix Force empowered Emma Frost is shown blasting the Hulk off of her, which is a continuation of the confrontation between the two that you are referring to. That is proof the Hulk did absolute s**t to the Phoenix Force empowered Emma Frost. So either you prove that the Hulk actually did anything, or you stop assuming ridiculous things.

#8) (Continued) Well, yes. The Phoenix Force empowered Cyclops was literally stated by the Cerebra empowered Stepford Cuckoos as to being a Planetary level threat in 'Avengers vs X-Men #12, Page #8'. So not only is a Phoenix Force empowered Cyclops defeating Thor plot induced stupidity due to the Phoenix Force empowered Cyclops only being Planetary in power, but it is also plot induced stupidity because in 'Avengers vs X-Men #4, Pages #5-7', Thor makes the actual Phoenix Force entity (which was confirmed to be Universal in power because in 'Avengers vs X-Men #5, Pages #16-17', Iron Man's Phoenix Force Killer, which was confirmed to be Universal in power in 'Avengers vs X-Men #4, Page #16, Panel #5', proved successful in defeating the Phoenix Force) run for its life with but one hammer throw. So how does a Planetary level threat, that is the likes of a Phoenix Force empowered Cyclops, defeat Thor who made the actual Phoenix Force entity run for its life with but one hammer throw? It is quite simple, @TheNemianLion. It is due to pure PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY and you can't prove otherwise. I mean, for goodness sake, how many beings has Thor defeated who are on the level of the Phoenix Force (which is Universal in power, as I proved above)? Like 10 plus? It really isn't that surprising that a god such as Thor is more powerful than Universal level threats. All you have to do is look at his track record. Wait, so because a variation of the Hulk knocked Thor back, you equate that to the Hulk being as powerful as Thor? Like, what the f**k? What kind of logic is that? The Hulk has gotten his ass handed to him by a snake, Thor decimates snakes the size of the Earth on a regular basis! FACTS!

#9) I still don't think you have proven that the Hulk destroying a "Time Storm" is a quantifiable feat, but for arguments sake, let's just go with it. You act as if the strength of the Hulk being 4 Dimensional is impressive or something. Kid, Thor himself is BEYOND the 4th Dimension as proven in 'Journey Into Mystery Volume 1 #98, Page #3, Panel #1' when the writer says, "An interval later, for Time as we know it means nothing to the gods of Asgard, Mighty Thor stands before the throne of his father." I did not define what a Multiverse is, s**t for brains. I was simply quoting what the international Dictionary states what a Multiverse is, unlike you who uses what a single University's interpretation of what the term is. It is considered a Multiverse once it has an infinite amount of Universes residing in it. End of story.

#10) Okay. Just deny what the comics literally say all you want. It is just more points for me. You can further break something already broken. I can break a stick, and break it again. I can break a car, and break it again. I can break your skull, and break it again. NOW do you see the fault in your logic? The Hulk broke an already broken Time Barrier. That does not impress me at all. Try again.

#11) Oh yeah, CLEARLY. We all believe you, @TheNemianLion. Anyways, Thor is stated by the writer in 'Journey Into Mystery Volume 1 #99, Page #3, Panel #1' as to "...traveling at speeds faster than the Human mind can comprehend..." So you tell me if it was stated by the writer. "Destroying?" What are you talking about? The Hulk destroyed s**t. All he did was shake the Universes, which isn't impressive at all.

#12) Well, in 'Defenders Volume 3 #3, Page #13, Panel #2', Umar can sense that the Hulk has two souls, and easily tampers with them to slip a Behavioral Modification Spell into them. She also states that she can "perform a psychic dissection" on the Hulk. It really isn't that surprising that the Hulk can be tampered with even when he is in his Bruce Banner form as long as you have some knowledge on the Hulk. Lastly, in which comic did the Hulk defeat Dark Crawler for the second time?

#13) Well, I guess it doesn't matter, considering Namor being able to stand a chance against Thor would be plot or writer induced stupidity anyways. Okay, I have read the comic already. All I want you to do is show me where in the comic it proves The Heart of The Universe is more powerful than the Living Tribunal. It is that simple.